ENOUGH!
Mon May 10th, 2004 01:07 MST[Welcome Instapundit Readers. I have added to the comments section one other issue mentioned previously on Roger’s blog but missing here. It’ll be a few comments down.]
This article was written as a comment on Roger Simon’s outstanding blog.
My reaction to the prisoner abuse is that perhaps we are not qualified to win this war.
Even the good people on this forum, who usually seem to understand the danger we are in, are engaged in hand-wringing about this event. Not so much about how it may affect the war, but about its lack of humanity. Roger wants to blow up the prison.
I’ve got a message for you: What you saw WAS humanity. Humans do bad things all the time. Humans make mistakes. Humans can be sadistic. And humans can be stupid.
ENOUGH!
People say that we will win because our values are superior. Oh yeah? Try to prove it! Unless you have a religious faith that our values will lead to victory, that assertions is, well, merely an assertion.
The values I see being displayed are an initial appropriate reaction of dismay at the behavior of a few, followed by inappropriate hand-wringing and self flagellation. The more political types - the Anybody-But-Bush coalition of the left, the Democratic Party, the media including Hersch, and the Islamofascists have the value that any action that defeats Bush is justified, no matter how many innocent Americans die as a result. Are those our superior values. Bullsh*t! The more naive of their supporters have a value system that says anything the government tries to keep secret should be released, because the government is obviously hiding something form us, something that RIGHT NOW we have to know if we are to be good citizens. More Bullsh*t! Many imagine that the public has a “right to know.” More Bullsh*t! Many imagine that the press is some sort of Fair Witness (hat tip: Heinlein), standing on a pillar and pronouncing the truth. Horse sh*t!
Against the values I see being displayed by us are people with another set of values: the willingness to sacrifice their lives for their cause (the most vocal that I hear from the left wouldn’t sacrifice their dessert for their country); a single-mindedness to attack the enemy (our corresponding value is a single-mindedness to attack those who protect us, with the goal of gaining political power); a belief that their values are the only right values (our value is that we are bad, or that our soldiers are bad, or that our leadership are bad, or that we deserve what happens to us, that our enemies are made up by right-wing politicians).
Put those two value sets into the cauldron of evolution and tell me which one is going to win?
Save the “we will win because our values are better” nonsense.
ENOUGH!
There is a psychometric observation (the Flynn Effect) which shows that IQ increases with each generation. I suggest there is another effect that says national stupidity increases in proportion to the acceptance of leftist myths, and with the lack of immediate, in-your-face, painted international safety orange, so obvious you have to walk around it to get to the bathroom danger
The level of national trauma over this event shows how many people are stupid about warfare. It shows that they have no clue about what the stakes are. It shows they have no clue as to how real humans behave outside of Starbucks and expensive restaurants and suburbia.
How do folks think “the greatest generation” would have reacted to this in the ’40s? They wouldn’t have given a damn, because they knew that in comparison to the evil they were fighting, this stuff was small potatoes. Some might comment that it deserved a routine investigation and some courts martial, but not many would call for a national guilt meet-up! They knew what the enemy did and although they held themselves to a better standard, they didn’t flagellate themselves when someone screwed up and hurt the enemy a little too much.
Remember, we revere these people as the Greatest generation
And our enemy is at least as bad as their enemy, and much more widespread.
.
—————-
That Hersch can find officers to make negative comments is no surprise. There have been long periods of time where the Army was not involved in serious fights. In those conditions, the Generals often have no real world experience (except perhaps a Kerry-esque ticket stamping tour in Vietnam to get their Combat Infantryman Badge). They may have spent the rest of their career in logistics - an important area but not exactly related to prisoner treatment. They may harbor resentments because they were forced to retire rather than advance.
So don’t give any credibility to Hersch’s sources.
Consider the following: There was a big hoo-hah like this during Tet ‘68 because of the famous photograph and video of the Vietnam Chief of Police killing a “Viet Cong Prisoner.” What wasn’t reported was this man had just killed an entire family, children and all, that was close to that police chief:
Mr. Loan insisted that his action was justified because the prisoner had been the captain of a terrorist squad that had killed the family of one of his deputy commanders.
Furthermore, that terrorist, not wearing a uniform, had no Geneva Rights - the police chief was perfectly within his rights to kill that man at his whim. The street execution happened in the middle of widespread terrorist attacks in the city.
So what did the left do? The same damn thing they are doing now. They used the reaction to that photograph to further turn Americans against the war and the administration. Those who will respond about our noble press had better explain why the context was not told along with the picture.
The left are trying to do this again. After all, last time they stopped a war (resulting in horrific deaths and millions of refugees), they kicked out a president, the castrated the CIA, and in the next 7 years gave a number of countries to communists. And to top it off, they are still proud of their actions.
I warned a month ago about the Tet Syndrome and how the malicious bastards of the press and Democratic Party would seek to create the effect again).
ENOUGH!
Half of that report discusses other problems at the prison - problems that could have gotten Americans killed - such as a prisoner with a firearm in his cell, and prisoner escapes. Where is Mr. Hersch’s outrage that our soldiers were in danger because of defects in the same system? Obviously he cares more about embarrassment of some folks who had probably been plotting to kill Americans when captured than anything else, and the injuries to a few of them.
We know the real agenda here. Pictures damaging to the country were released by a criminal, abetted by the press who will not release the name of a person who released a SECRET/NOFORN document or care about how it spread.
To those who have not worked with classified material, here is the definition of a SECRET classification:
defense information or material the unauthorized disclosure of which could result in serious damage to the nation
“NOFORN” means it is so special that it cannot be given to allies who have access to other “SECRET” information of ours.
That this information was classified correctly is obvious to anyone whose head is screwed on to the correct end of their spinal column.
In our current society, who is asking about the propriety of releasing this information, the release of which is expected to cause “serious damage to the nation?” Who is condemning the idiot who released this information? Who is calling for that person’s head? Who was that turncoat?
The answer is that nobody in the major media is asking, not even Fox News. Our enemies are laughing their heads off. They are going to be using SECRET/NOFORN information for their recruiting posters.
It is clear to me that until we are hit again and hit hard, the usual suspects will continue to release information which will seriously damage our nation.
I say the following in all seriousness: If we are hit again, I hope the only people killed are these turkeys. But it won’t happen that way.
The rest of us do not deserve to suffer from their failure to understand the consequences of their actions, or if they did understand the consequences (and some did), their perfidy.
I don’t want to hear any more apologies about what went wrong. It shouldn’t be necessary to say that what was done was wrong, or inconsistent with our values, or anything else. It is redundant. It is once again blaming ourselves for what was inevitable and what was being properly dealt with. I don’t want to hear any more of our good commenting group saying “Oh, the inhumanity!” or whatever. We’ve done that. We’ve done that more than once.
ENOUGH!
I don’t want to hear about us blowing up the prison. I’d rather see the Ba’aathists serve in that prison than in any paradise we might build. That prison should exist as a symbol of shame for the Iraqi people. Yes, the Iraqi people. Iraqis let Saddam gain power, and Iraqis put up with it. Yes, they were victims, but nobody but Iraqis is responsible for Saddam. We forget that. It is mostly Iraqis who have been killing us. It is Iraqis who worked for Saddam. It is Iraqis who served in his armies. It is Iraqis who did things in that prison, to their fellow Iraqis, that we have never done. But it isn’t politically correct to expect anything of the Iraqis except their anger when we screw up, or when we don’t deliver electricity well enough, or when we kill Iraqi’s who are trying to kill us.
ENOUGH!
The prison should exist as a place where justice is administered to the terrorists and especially former regime criminals. They should die there.
And if a woman laughs at their naked genitals, that’s just too f*cking bad. Think about what THEY did and how THEY treated women.
HINT: THERE IS A FRIGGIN WAR ON
Wars are ugly. Wars are not played by the rules of badminton. The Marquis de Queensbury is not the authority to follow now.
There was a minor (in the scale of things) set of incidents of prisoner abuse. Okay, we know that. Punishment will be meted out. So damn it, get f*cking over it!
Stop this self flagellation. The best thing we can do is go on the attack, and what we need to attack is those partisans, political opportunist, journalistic turncoats and others who will seek to maximize the damage of this event on the president, in the process inflicting yet more damage on our country and the morale of our soldiers.
ENOUGH!
Let’s Roll (hat tip: Dan McWiggins’ comment)
Couldn’t agree with you more.
John,
Bullseye! The war for the hearts and minds of the American people has escalated out of control in this election year. I still hold faith that common sense will win out over the daily barrage of bulls*#t we are fed. Soldier on. We need to be continually innoculated with sensible, cogent arguments such as this to fend them off.
Damn. I feel better having read that.
Thank you.
Nothing wrong with psywar against prisoners, just with the unprofessional manner it was applied and the compromise of security considerations for commic effect.
Great post. It is too bad that the scum who released the pics won’t get what’s coming to them, but we can hope.
As I have commented elsewhere, I find it interesting that revelations of this sort about domestic prisions only seem to generate yawns on the left, unless the victims are members of a Certified Victimised Minority (TM).
boy…you´re an idiot!!!
chauvinist freak
Additional Perspective from Useful Fools
I am the author of ENOUGH!
I left out one issue that should shed some light on both a terrible scandal in the United States and the coverage of this issue: Prison Rape in the United States.
It is not just a TV cliche that homosexual rape is common in our jails. A sentence for a minor offense can turn into repeated rape and infection with HIV.
As you consider all of the outrage about the Abu Ghraib issue, ask youself: Where is the outrage about prisoner rape in our own jails?? Is there perhaps an agenda here other than just exposing miscreants? Does the media choose to dwell on this subject due to their widespread Anybody But Bush attitude? Is your own judgment unconsciously skewed by the same feelings?
I also want to comment that I rarely use profanity in my mostings, and it was used for effect in this one. As a Naval Air Reserve Vietnam veteran enlisted man, you can be sure I was well indoctrinated in the creative art of Naval Profanity. But for the real thing, find a Chief Petty Office or a Boot Camp Drill instructor and ask them to turn it on. It’s a fascinating art form.
Just another “amen” to your post. I think the Greatest Generation would say that “y’all have gone soft.” Glad I found your blog.
Moral clarity
Wars are ugly. Wars are not played by the rules of badminton. The Marquis de Queensbury is not the authority to follow now. There was a minor (in the scale of things) set of incidents of prisoner abuse. Okay, we…
Amen, John. The hysteria about the “torture” these guys were undergoing is completely disproportionate to the reality. The story from Hersh today is just another example. Oh, my goodness, they used dogs to intimidate prisoners! And one of them was even bit! So much for the theory that “Dog Bites Man” is not news I suppose.
You’re right: the self-flaggelation must stop, and the true flaggelation must begin–Give me the f**ing whip:
I hope you and your family are ass raped someday, on camera. You are a pathetic and lonely man, you make me wish you were in that tower on 9/11, jumping out of the window because the smoke was overpowering you. I wish that were you, or your children. You are a mindless cretin with no soul, unlike the true victims of 9/11. I wish that were you instead.
I’m so glad for this war because so many idiotic right-wing fascists are going off on their Arab-killing fantasy adventure only to get trapped in the desert, shot to pieces, losing limbs, sanity, and their delusions of grandeur, although clearly not enough since you are still here.
Yeah, war is ugly, and I hope it turns you and your rabid little Nazi fan club into its next victims. I hope the war takes root in your tiny little town, in the form of teenage, white middle class kids with assault rifles who gun down elementary school kids because they were so desensitized to violence on TV and the 24-hour coverage of the war. Or maybe because their mom or dad was sent off to “the great war” and came back traumatized, alcoholic, completely changed, and in turn polluted their own family and children with haunted images of death.
I hope this is your town, this is your family, and I hope this with a hate you can not ever understand. You are not America. You are hardly even human. You are a dog, and you deserve nothing but scorn, humiliation, and a severe ass-kicking.
Get the hell out of my country!
[Note from John Moore: I left this offensive post here as an example of why I believe the left wing in this country has run off the rails. This person wishes all manner of evil upon me.
One response, although he doesn’t deserve on:
I served my country as a soldier, as a volunteer, in a war. It’s not your f*cking country, you idiot.
So . . . lemme see . . .
My moral compass is broken. Perhaps you can help me fix it.
Let’s say there is a hypothetical country in, oh, the Middle East. We’ll call it “Ibam”. And the person (or persons) currently in control of Ibam see that there is a threat to their authority and power. So they round up the dissenters, or suspected dissenters, and put them in a prison. In that prison, the dissenters are raped, humiliated, made to pose in embarassing positions, subjected to electrodes, etc.
My question is this: Is this moral . . . or NOT?
Because it seems to me that your answer depends largely on who is the one in power. If it is someone like, say, Saddam Hussein, then he is evil and he must be stopped. If it is someone like say, the United States . . . well, hey kids, that’s the breaks.
Put another way, are human rights violations okay SOMETIMES (i.e., when we do it) and a rationale for war OTHER TIMES (i.e., when Saddam does it)?
I thought you conservatives were moral absolutists. Interesting how quickly THAT flies out the window for the sake of political expediency.
“Where is the outrage about prisoner rape in our own jails??”
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_05_02.php#002937
and from the J.Marshall post
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/08/national/08PRIS.html?hp
But, as you correctly noted, its so well known and common that its hardly news.
Funny how many people there are that read what they think someone is saying rather than what that person wrote.
Been out-of-town again for a while, though returned to find some mighty articulate posts on any number of topics.
RJ’s isn’t one of them, however. Will you repeat that a second time, RJ–how was it…’rabid Nazi dogs’? And you’re wishing ‘right-wingers’ dead, now, are you? Very ‘peace loving,’ on your part, won’t you agree? Spewing that sort of embittered bile sort of fits right in with what Rhod and John were earlier saying about the agony leftists’ are feeling as they watch their sixties ‘ideals’ fall by the cultural wayside.
Am I ashamed of those photographs of prison abuse, one might ask? Well, yes, I was when I first saw them–but we’ve moved past it now, or at least everyone with the exception the leftist media in America.
RJ–you guys spent weeks trying to publicly pronounce George Bush a military ‘deserter,’ and the ploy was a miserable, absolute failure; you spent weeks trying to pronounce George Bush’s administration ‘responsible’ for 9-11, and, of course, that too failed. Now you’re trying to degrade his entire administration for the actions of a few (mind you, several of the culprits are female, and this doesn’t say much on behalf of Patricia Schoeder’s military judgment, am I right?)
Odd it is, such photographs showed up in the hands of those God-fearing, true-blue Americans over at ‘60 Minutes,’ Odd, too, that the photos conveniently showed up just as the general election process is beginning to heat up.
RJ, I don’t like you, nor do I like leftists. But I don’t wish you dead. In fact, I’m even unhappy that your species is simply brain-dead. It’s a real tragedy, watching you beat yourself to a bloody pulp, all while still failing to produce anything substantial against Bush.
RJ, I think you’re living proof that the left was lying when it initially said, “We support our troops, but not the war.”
Mudville Gazette has a good take on the Hersch article.
The pictures show some people doing wrong. A small number of people. The military began investigating in January. It appears that one of the accused people’s lawyer leaked the photos. And suddenly it’s open season in the press.
Is this how we want to do things?
I agree: ENOUGH
Enough trial by media. I did not elect them to rule this country. Did you?
Rick James? Super Freak? Man, I thought Rick was dead. Seems he is.
Anyway, Rick is one of those pustulant little sores on the Left side of the body politic. Blogs like this one give these vile little maniacs a place to spill their intellectual vomit. And that’s good. Otherwise they would be abusing animals and other helpless creatures in a sordid attempt to stimulate themselves and feel powerful.
People like you, Rick, are normally due some pity and maybe even sympathy. Certainly therapy would help. You, however, have really descended to a new level of vacant stupidity and deranged lunacy. Your country? You have no country, only the putrid dungeon of your sick little mind where you’re forever confined, forever unhappy, forever confused. Get off the planet and take your stink with you, you slobbering moron!
Apologies to everyone for my last post directed at Mr. James.
I am seriously concerned that Rick James represents at least one point, and not the farthest, on the Left side of the political spectrum.
The issue that has riled Mr. James into a sort of mind-corroding fit, which he himself cannot define…a hatred we cannot understand (in his words) is the prison atrocities. I have seen similar states of mind on The Left for issues far less explosive, and I’ve seen similar states of mind in combat. In combat you try to remove the offender because he poses a danger to everyone EXCEPT the enemy, especially himself. The death of reason creates monsters.
Not too long ago, the types of “thoughts” (wishes, attributions, etc.) that Mr. James expressed would have been considered at the very least imbalanced. Whoever held these thoughts would, if a scrap of reason survived, be concerned about them, and seek some sort of help or, maybe in another age, absolution. Not now. This is a common thing on The Left, and it is routinely excused as righteous anger.
What this type of thinking does is eclipse the event which brought it about, and replaces the debate with something beyond definition. It is shocking to observe this sort of thing, this type of ideation, and other things come into play. Pity, fear, defensiveness, disgust, indignance, scorn and revulsion. The difference between Rick James and the Falujah mutilation gangs is simply one of location and opportunity.
Simply as a moral question, Rick James has shown that he is not above, but beneath the issues that have sent him aloft. His potentialities are nearly as bad as the offenders in the prison, and he has all the debased insticts of the abusers; just different targets. If I were Rick, I would take a long breath and try to think through this problem.
The question is: “How many of those prisoners were killed?
I can’t stop. The anger is too severe.
I have three sons in this war, Rick James. All of them gentle, strong and intelligent. Loving, decent young men who are educated, never in trouble anywhere, anytime, made of material that a degenerate like you couldn’t comprehend. An ape with a pearl in his hand has more understanding than you do.
You have wished death and destruction upon my sons, mutilation, maiming and worse. You know, even then, I understand you. Every man worth a damn is familiar with his dark and dangerous side. He hates the things that are better than he is, and knows it.
But a man worth a damn subdues it, overcomes it, overcomes his temptation to cowardice, to impotent rage, to hatred and, yes, stupidity. It’s hard to do, but not impossible. You clearly cannot do this, and that is your tragedy. Someday you might harness this monster in you and move beyond it. One hopes.
Wow! Great post, John. There are bullies everywhere, and it’s hard to weed them out. They need to be punished, which they obviously will be. Take the corrective action and stop with the hand-wringing. The strident left is only hurting Kerry, it being so obvious that all the crap we’re hearing now is strictly political. BTW, speaking of bullies, is Rick James an alias for Micheal Moore, or is this psycho just an MM wannabe? What’s his military experience? Just wondering …..
It seems only yesterday that Democrats were bemoaning Bush’s ‘responsibility’ for 9-11, and arguing that Bush was a military ‘deserter,’ and so forth. And then Republicans countered, “What about the first Trade Center bombing?” And “How about those three Purple Hearts Mr. Kerry supposedly ‘earned’?”
My wife perhaps has said it best, at least in our house: When I get frustrated over the ongoing lunacy of the left, and their inability to find anything ‘real’ to pin on our president, my dearest occasionally says, “Honey, the Dems hop from issue to issue, and they never stay any one place for very long. There’s no real substance to their arguments, no sense of reason. If you shine a flashlight into the corner of an abandoned shack,” my beloved always adds–”the cockroaches inevitably flee for their lives.”
I hate to talk so of the Demcrats, but the more I listen to the shrill likes’ of Ashley Judd or Whoopi Goldberg, or any number of their aging, politically-frustrated senators, I cannot help but think of my wife’s allusion to insects. Or perhaps Van Helsing’s demons. Or perhaps Teddy Kennedy’s testosterone.
I duly apologize for being so vicious and meanspirited.
JOHN MOORE CONFUSES ME
As linked here, we have this hard-to-follow rambling complaint about people who think something should be done about Abu Ghraib after everybody gets a chance to make their “shocked, shocked” statements…
Fisked here:
http: //instawatch.blogspot.com/2004_05_01_instawatch_archive.html#108423309829099024
John,
Well said, as usual. The abuse was wrong; it was a bad mistake. That said, it was uncovered in good time and action is being taken to punish those responsible. In the scale of moral absolutism this doesn’t even measure on the scale compared to the actions of our enemies. Humans make mistakes. The good ones admit them, fix them, apologize if necessary and move on. We’ve done all that, at the highest levels. Indeed, our behavior should be an object lesson for the rest of the world as to how such things should be handled.
As you said, enough. Let’s roll.
My wife said there was interviews on local Vietnamese radios throughout Southern California about the Iraqis prison scandal. Interestingly enough, many Vienamese Americans think the incident is like a black dot on a white background relative to other countries. And we just arrived here for only 20 plus years.
Related: concerning the four contractors.
http://www.newsherald.com/viewpoint/phillucas/040404.shtml
Oversensationalized
The press reports, and heck, even the Screenshots, have been oversensationalizing the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. Yes, I think what happen was wrong, inhumane, and if I were to parrot what most Americans feel about it - unAmerican.
Thomas Sowell on Abu Ghraib and the media:
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell.html
and
All is lost!
For goodness sake people, harden up a bit! The prisoner mistreatment issue is obviously not good, but the point is that the system eventually creaks into action and starts working. The Army investigated it, it’s been stopped, and efforts are…
All:
As we all know this is an election year, and the democrats are up to their eye-balls in their typical ‘Hate-America-First’, if its good for America its bad for the dems.
As we know the Military is handling the problem, and the guilty will be punished, end of comment.
But since the left-wing losers didnt know about it first, ergo there must be a cover up and another opportunity to bash the president. Their first is get Bush they hate him, ahh but this is where they will fail. They want Donald Rumsfeld to resign, reason ? Oh it happened on his watch, to that I say B*llSh*t, the President as well as the Secretary of Defense do not ‘micro-manage’ their position they delagate authority as it should be. Case in point after Waco and Ruby ridge fiascos Clinton came right out and said , “Hey it was Janet Renos fault”, but amazingly no one called for her to resign, the death of those Americans evidently did not carry the weight that a few abused Iraqi prisoners carry, which in my opinion is not abuse.
The problem the dems have is they have NO candidate, they are running an empty-suit, and the funny thing is they are just finding this out. They are, ie the bloated-one from Massachewsetts, the Not-so-honorable Senator from West Virginia, Robert ’sheets’ Byrd are now trying to run interferrence for kerry and it aint working. The 20/20 Hindsight commision is a partisan joke, Jamie Goreslick should be a witness but she is a commisioner ? How sweet it is. The president is doing what he always does he meets the challange head on, ‘ all ahead full’ sort of a New tone, kick-ass and take no prisoners method but it is working, and they cant understand why, none of their tricks work.
As far as Rick James is concerned he is a puppet in the big scheme of the democrat hate America first machine. These people want their agenda shoved down our throats and when we will not have any of it they throw a hissy fit. Rich james is not worth the time or the effort, he belongs in the streisand/penn/sheen category, anti-American subversives.
Mark
Mark:
I think you were too kind to Rick James. Streisand, Penn, Robbins and the rest are screwballs, but James is a certifiable lunatic. He sounded like Hitler passing a kidney stone and he call US nazis.
And more, I don’t think James is the exception. Rip the mask off liberalism and you have Rick James, a kid with a stool sample for a brain and triple personality, three of which are Psycho Killers.
His heart is so big he will kill everyone who disagrees with him, or wish them dead if he can’t do that. Other blogsites are full of these people, so bad you need a bath after reading some of their “thoughts”.
I would guess he is some greasy-faced, skinny-necked wanker who threatens “ass-kicking” on the web, but we don’t know how many of them can turn into Manson along the way. Well, typical Kerry voter I guess.
Hey Guys,
I’v been out of touch for a while searching the net and elsewhere to study and to think. I am now back.
Just don’t confuse me with this low brow, thick skulled, brainless, sicko, socialist liberal - Rick James.
Will be posting soon.
Nuff said,
Rick
Those who released the photos should be charged with treason, and I’m not sure that those who showed them are not due punishment of some type also.
There are so many real issues to deal with in the world and the US but the liberals only grab at what seems to be helpful politically, even if it has to be twisted and turned out of reality. When others with different points of view bring up valid issues that are being ignored, and are much more serious, they are called names, blacklisted, humiliated and worse. Conservatives can deal with facts and never resort to James Carville type tactics such as dragging money through a “trailer park” comments and such. Democrats are not held to the same moral standards that they hold others-Ted Kennedy, Bill and Hillary Clinton, Gary Condit, John Kerry, Barney Franks (not the homosexuality but the statuatory rape of young boys working as pages exused as gay love-though if it had been a young girl the country wouldn’t have excused it so quickly-and the prostitution ring run by his “lover” in a place that was supposed to be Franks’ and I believe paid for with taxpayer funds), and many Liberals get away with “murder”. Most Conservatives pay the price for their sins. But very seldom do Liberals in politics pay. Some Liberals like Alan Colmes can discuss ideas intelligently and calmly, without resorting to character assassination, and anti-US rhetoric, however misguided he may be. But most are like poison snakes, doing serious damage to their own country, seldom making sense, and concerned only with political gain.
The things that went on in that prison were wrong, but much worse goes on in many US prisons, and is extremely mild compared to prisons in the middle east.
I am with John. We need to show more reality, harsh as it may be, and let people see what the Islamic world is doing in violence in Israel to women and children and brutalizing live and dead bodies, and what they are doing in their Jihad against Westerners throughout the world, besides in Afghanistan and Iraq. We need to share what they teach in their schools and mosques, even in the US, that is dangerous to us, instead of trying to be PC. The FBI had trouble with a Muslim agent who refused to do an assignment that involved criminal Muslims, saying it would violate his religion-yet they are now recruiting Muslims in the war on terror, which will probably just allow Muslims to have agents inside the FBI to feed them info. At some point we must start showing reality, not letting it be pushed aside because of PC concerns. Show how we are treated. Show the things they say and do. Fight back as hard and harsh as they do (while still following our moral standards-just don’t tie our soldiers hands), and stop trying to be concened about what the world thinks. When we go through a town often after we leave they have hundreds run into the streets with guns chanting “Kill the US” etc. while holding rifles up. A rocket launched into the center of several of these crowds would change that. They are enemies, armed and ready to fight. Just do it instead of waiting for them to pick off our soldiers later. Allowing the evil to fester and spread is not an option.
Trying to get the truth out to the Muslim world is a good idea. Yet most believe any non-Muslim to be Satan, and deserving of death. No amount of being nice and saving lives will change that in the short term. And most of them refuse to believe the truth, even when they see it.
I remember my brother, a decorated Special Foces soldier who is now retired, capturing many soldiers in the Gulf War (including some of Sadam’s Royal Guards), yet he didn’t kill anyone, though he said there were situations where it would have been excused-he just did it the hard way, taking more of a risk to let them live. Most of our soldiers are like this. They will kill if needed, but won’t if they don’t have to, while Muslims usually kill and torture by choice, including women and children. Hollywood isn’t out there screaming about all the dead women and children in Israel, but they still spread lies that we have been slaughtering women and children in Iraq.
Show the images the Arab world is showing with a kid waving and then shooting a soldier as he passes and pumping bullets into his body, and dancing for joy. Show the bodies of our people dragged and defiled. SHOW THE TRUTH! TELL THE TRUTH! Yes it is hard to take, but we need to see what this Jihad against us really is like, how low they will sink, and just how much danger we are in. And if the Muslims in the US refuse to stand up for the US against the hate, and spew anti-American speeches and support terrorists, and train their children to hate non-Muslims, we need to take action against them, beginning with deporting everyone who isn’t a citizen. Jail those who are breaking the law. Stop trying to be PC. They need to be US citizens first, and Muslims second. Instead they are forming little Muslim communities of hate all around the country.
I blame all the politicians who won’t deal with the problems facing the country(Democrat, Republican, Independent), and instead just sit around trying to pack pork onto bills and get re-elected. Criticize John Moore if you want, disagree with him where you will, but it is people like him on the internet who are getting issues out into public forums for discussion that are ignored or covered up by mainstream media.
“Amen, and AMEN”, you are SO RIGHT, John, this is really ENOUGH already…..and as for Rick James, there’s not a “dime’s worth of difference” between him and the terrorists who slammed into the WTC and the Pentagon. Like John said, we are facing such evil in these Islamofascists (and their “apologists”-whatever their labels-with their aiding and abetting), such as the world has never seen, such crazed, hate-spewing naked evil around the globe, even worse than Lenin, Stalin and Hitler. And evil hates “good” more than anything else, that’s why our President is slandered so much, and that’s why the attacks on morality, decency, and the ability to utter the name of God in public except in profanity, in this great land of ours. And why they refuse to acknowledge all the good & great things our brave troops are doing. But as long as there are good people like John Moore, and the rest of you good folk out there, who are standing up to this evil and confronting it face to face, I feel encouraged and optomistic, I believe we CAN make a difference, I believe good WILL triumph over evil, (because evil has nothing to offer except death, destruction and emptiness) and I believe we have right on our side (no pun intended) Thankyou, John for letting me get on my “soapbox” here.
One Man’s Abuse
One of the photo’s getting a great deal of air time shows Lyndie England holding a leash which is attched to an Iraqi prisoner. I went to Home Depot today…
Where is the distinction between the Abu Ghraib photos and the same sort of stuff funded by the National Endowment for the Arts and defended by the ACLU? This is not a rhetorical question, because we need to resolve the difference. I can think of a few immediate differences, but none which excuse us for:
1)Defending this art-form on the one hand, and
2)Going through these moral contortions on the other.
America opinion-makers are not just confused, they’re crazy.
And I can’t resist this…Ted Kennedy’s party photo album is probably even worse.
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Sean Penn, along with the 2 U.S. Congressman who went to Iraq on an independent fact finding mission, are perfect examples of these people who are harming us. I “Respect” everyones right to voice their opinion, but to do so in a foreign land which our soliders are being sent into, and say we/our president is wrong and personally insult him, without giving the opinions of Sadam or his Regime that they gave us when they came back to “AMERICA” about the cruelty of Sadam and his regime. Saying, Iraq should have free elections, Iraqi’s should overthrow Sadam themselves, He’s a butcher and a murderer. If this was an independent fact finding mission,Where was your courage and respect of free speech then? Stating these opinion in “AMERICA” required no courage. America’s Forefathers showed the character and bravery along with bearing the consequences it took for you to have your free speech. You inherited this right from others who fought for it, and for you to have it. Now, if you don’t pocess the courage and character to help others in Iraq gain it, and show your “TRUE COWARDNESS” by not using it and stating the very opinions of Iraq and Sadam you said here in the U.S.A. you should have never of gone to Iraq. Let those who have this courage fight so others might enjoy it too. I would love to hear their excuse for having the courage to insult the U.S. in Iraq, but not Sadam or the Iraqi Regime while they where in Iraq. They didn’t even visit the refugees in the north and south who wanted Sadam out, they only went where the Iraqi reublican guard escorts took them. “Indepedent fact finding Mission”.. What a Joke??
interesting article
texas hold em
texas hold em texas hold em hold em hold em