Ned Flanders at Phoenix Peace Demonstration
Posted By John Moore on February 15, 2003
Ned Flanders, of The Simpsons, was present today at a Phoenix Anti-War Rally. Groundskeeper Willie, unfortunately, didn’t make it.
Read On …
Useful Fools decided to go see some real useful fools today, so
we joined the counter-demonstrators at the Phoenix, Arizona communist sponsored anti-war nut-fest.
I hadn’t been to an anti-war march since 1970 (note: the author is a Veteran who also, embarrassingly, attended a few demonstrations) but not much has changed! It’s the same loose collection of anarchists, communists, hippies and other useful fools. One difference was the increased number of anarchists and the total absence of Maoists - and we didn’t have to listen to the Ho Chi Minh chant!
Countering the peaceniks were the local University Republicans, various Freepers and a few of us who just wanted to show out disagreement.
The anti-war marchers expected a crowd of 5000. There appeared to be only 300 [UPDATE - The press LIED about the numbers.]
We had about 30 counter-demonstrators, but then conservatives have better ways to spend our time than holding signs.
Everyone had a good time… the main activity of the peaceniks was taking pictures of each other, other than the two tough looking Arabic-speaking guys who seemed to be watching everyone very closely.
The anti-war crowd was mostly preaching to the converted. They congregated around a stage at Patriot’s Park (sigh, the irony) and listened to the standard trite litanies.
The counter-demonstrators, recognizing that terrain is a critical factor in any battle, stood by the street, showing banners to those who drove by (many of whom honked or otherwise showed their support) and also trying to get the attention of those who didn’t already agree with us.
A number of the anti-war crowd wandered by to talk to us. One woman stood in the middle of our group, shrieking “Don’t Send My Son to Iraq” and carrying a placard wth the same sentiment. She said her son was in the military. We said “Well, didn’t he volunteer? Doesn’t he want to do his duty?” Nope, he
“didn’t have any choice - he joined to get an education”. What a pathetic excuse. I hope the poor kid doesn’t find out what his mother was saying! This discussion did draw several reporters… it will be interesting to see how it plays in the press.
I only got a couple of pictures of the good-guys… It was way too much fun taking pictures of the colorful loons on the other side.
This good fellow had a great way to confuse the leftists:
My daughter did her part:
However, the gentleman to the right of her is dressed in plastic and duct tape. No… it wasn’t raining. He was trying to make a political statement: that he is an idiot.
Most of the others in the background are the counter-demonstrators.
Speaking of wierdos, a bunch of people seemed to have tin hats with antennae on them. Raelians? I don’t think so, but strange none-the-less:
I was concerned that there weren’t any Che Guevara T-shirts. Had the long dead terrorist finally lost his luster? But nope, we spotted these folks:
We had a hard time deciding which placards were the silliest, and finally settled on these:
Then we had to find a blatant communist. No problem, although these days even commies have nice cameras
A hippie with a drug-induced incoherence of messages was also available (note that she also has a nice camera).
We found some folks wearing masks.
I asked one of these guys why he was wearing a mask. His answer was:
“Well, like, err… were part of a group. It’s, like, to show solidarity.”
Fine. I get it. I guess. With them was gal wearing a helmet. I guess she was hoping that the Phoenix Police would lose their cool at the display of all this idiocy, and attack her.
For that matter, the lady in the center of this picture was there for the purpose of legally harrassing anywone who bothered the demonstrators (at least if you read the web sites about “Legal Observers”). Note how she is glaring at the good-guy counter-demonstration. Hmmmm….
Mystery solved. The guy taking notes to the left of the unhappy “Legal Observer” is one of the good guys from Moron Watch blog.
In the Vietnam War era demonstrations, there were always lots of folks directly cheering for the enemy. These days, most useful fools are more subtle, but not this guy… the flag he is carrying is Palestinian, and the flag on his jacket is an Iraqi flag. When I asked to take his picture, he snapped this Nazi salute. I’ll bet this guy would be real comfortable in Baghdad!
We wanted see if any terrorist organizations were present. Sure enough, CAIR (which has well documented ties to radical Islamicist terrorist organizations) had a booth.
And Finally, Ned Flanders…
Ned Flanders of Simpson’s fame wandered by (well, gosh golly he really looked like Ned when we talked to him. I forgot to get his picture while we were close, so you will have to settle for this poor drive-by shot of him.
Unfortunately, this Ned turned out to be one of the Black Helicopter set, lecturing us about the empty prison camps that were being built “suspiciously, only west of the Mississippi.”
We were hoping that Groundskeeper Willie would wander by with a Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey sign, but he didn’t make it.
Ned Flanders
All in all, it was a fun day. The useful fools didn’t achieve anything other than having fun, and nobody honked at their signs. They were unintentionally very entertaining.
NOTE about ANSWER, the Sponsor of the Demonstrations
The marches were sponsored by ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism). Answer is a Workers World Party front. WWP is a fan of Fidel Castro and North Korean dictator Kim John-Il. They also support the cop-killer Mumia.
UPDATE
Ed Snook, organizer of the march, insists (see below) that ANSWER didn’t sponsor the event. Okay, Ed, maybe you got us there. You put together a march exactly like the ones that the communist ANSWER folks did, with the same folks and the same signs, with the same purpose, advertised on their web site, so we perhaps made an incorrect leap of logic. You see, we looked at their web site and found this:
WEEK OF ANTI-WAR RESISTANCE
FEBRUARY 13-21
February 15-16: STOP THE WAR
Through Mass Resistance and Protest in New York City,
Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Around the World
and then on their locations page:
Phoenix, AZ
Local to Global Justice
CONTACT: phoenixrally@internationalanswer.org
EVENT: Gathering at Patriot Square Park (Washington & Central) at 10am
You can see how we might come to the conclusion that ANSWER had a hand in the protest!
Ed wants us to believe that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is just a chicken. Sorry Ed - maybe you were just their dupe, not their agent. Keep in mind that “When You Lie Down With Dogs, You Wake Up With Fleas.”
John Moore Goes A-Rallying!
John Moore of Useful Fools joined some other die-hard anti-anits in Pheonix today to observe the Commie-Sponsored “anti-war” rally there.
Congrats! Fantastic stuff. Now, I (almost) wish I went. Better than the Republic (of course).
John
Scottsdale
Holy shite! Moronwatch has been outed!
I’m the note scribbler in the photo with the “Legal Observer.” I was jotting down all the wacky slogans, which I blogged about here:
http://www.moronwatch.com/blog/archives/000680.html#000680
The Republic said 2500? Hah! Back to remedial math for the jokers at Gannett.
I forgot to mention…while standing there, Ms. Legal Observer sneezed and I instinctively gave her the ol’ “Bless you.”
She glared at me as if my last name was Cheney.
Great report. I’ll try and get up a link tomorrow (if blogger comes back online).
Great report and pics!
I have often wondered where the other cheek would be turned if we hadn’t responded to this latest threat (Iraq and Moslems)? Probably face down in the dirt with Saddam’s boot resting firmly on the backs of our collective necks. It is easily forgotten that if he had the means he would blast all infidels from the face of the earth. I prefer blasting him first.
The focus of the “legal observers” seems to be watching the police. Interview with a legal observer to the WTO protests
http://depts.washington.edu/wtohist/Interviews/Cover.htm
First of all, International ACTION did not sponsor the protests on 2/15 ANYWHERE in the country, much less in Phoenix. They sponsored the ones back in October and the ones in January. These were sponsored by United For Peace, of which the conservative libertarians at http://www.antiwar.com are a member of. Veterans for Peace, Catholics for Peace, etc.
Secondly, you guys left before the march started. I was there in your scared little faces with your lunatic freeper signs. Have you seen the pictures?
If you don’t like anti-government protests, perhaps you should move to a place that doesn’t allow them. Love it or leave it. Don’t use the fact that others live under dictatorships and do not have the freedom to protest as an argument against it. If I had grown up in Saddam’s Iraq, I would most likely have been killed by now fighting against his repression and dictatorship. That is no excuse, however, to invade the sovereignty of another country. Especially, since we have done our fair share in the past of keeping him in power and supporting him.
I am against the war mainly because the one person who stands to benefit the most from it is Osama and his Islamo-fascist ideologues, he has already referred to the coming invasion and occupation of Iraq as an “extension of Zion.” and every day U.S. troops are in Baghdad is a day he will grow more powerful, plus he gets a two for one… he gets Saddam out of power, one of the strongest secularists left in power in the middle east. Jesus, people, I wonder at what point you would think critically about a war and not rush in and write all people who are critical of the idea as ‘Un-American Commies.’ Go ahead, go to http://www.antiwar.com, they are not hippies… a lot of them used to be Republicans for God’s sake.
What’s more patriotic than protest? I mean any old dictatorship can get people riled up to rally around the flag, but it takes a democracy to tolerate protests.
And as for the anarchist kids, at least they weren’t at home watching television and eating Doritos, they are taking part in the process more than the kids that spent the day at the mall.
Please forgive Eddie. He forgot to take his medication again.
Just a few points in regards to Ed:
1. The counter-protest did not leave before the march started. They stood their ground as the march walked right by them, with some spirited invective hurled their way.
2. The pro-Bush crowd never had “scared little faces”, although had reason to considering how they were outnumbered by the pacifists who were shouting them down. Also, the black-clad anarchists did look a little spooky when they loomed over toward the pro-Bush crowd–I noted this in my blog entry.
3. So the counter-protest had “pathetic” signs while the rest of the marchers were genius rhetors? Hah! Check my blog for some of the loons who were in attendance.
4. Protest is a right, absolutely. Go to it, use it all you want. But it doesn’t automatically confer a lucid argument. There were many morons there, but fortunately we don’t execute them in this country.
Oh come on, Snook! What a load of CRAP. Some of us were at the protest. I wasn’t carrying any flags or signs - I decided to wander around Patriot Square and listen, look, ask questions and read the propaganda being handed out instead. I wanted to know exactly what kind of people were organizing and attending the protest. And I found out.
There didn’t seem to be much propaganda at this one, but the Young Socialists had a table and were kind enough to give me a flyer. They were also selling copies of “The Militant”. MOST of the people I talked to were very angry and very anti-American. A great many of them smelled as if they had never heard of soap.
Not hippies? Which protest did you attend? Hemp clothing, dreadlocks, peace signs, hairy women, and 60’s cliches smothered the place.
“a lot of them used to be republicans”??!! A “LOT” of them? I really don’t think so, Snook. Maybe a FEW of them, and no doubt they were not real Republicans but only RINO’s.
I challenge anyone and EVERYONE who thinks Snook’s statements carry any credibility to go check it out for yourselves next time. Here’s a tip: take a can of Lysol with you and possibly a bandana or breathing mask to block the offensive smells.
Patriotic? Hardly a word I would use to describe these America-hating hairballs. They are communist and socialist America-hating scum who are against capitalism, democracy, and personal hygiene!
Hey Ed… read your own stuff and see all the assumptions you make. Not everyone there was a Freeper. We weren’t scared… were you? And we know that not everyone there was a communist. In fact, most weren’t. But that makes no difference at all.
Oh, and if ANSWER didn’t indeed sponsor your march, they were sure prominent in marches around the country. Did you visit their website? I did. Did you see their signs? I did. Did you notice the ANSWER link on your own website? If you don’t approve of them, why do you link to them? And you certainly seem to have the same percentage of communists, anarchists and other flakes in your group.
We looked at their web site and found this:
WEEK OF ANTI-WAR RESISTANCE
FEBRUARY 13-21
February 15-16: STOP THE WAR
Through Mass Resistance and Protest in New York City,
Chicago, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Around the World
and then on their locations page:
Phoenix, AZ
Local to Global Justice
CONTACT: phoenixrally@internationalanswer.org
EVENT: Gathering at Patriot Square Park (Washington & Central) at 10am
Ed… wasn’t that YOUR march?
You can see how we might come to the conclusion that ANSWER had a hand in the protest!
In this case, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is claimed by Ed to be just a chicken. Sorry Ed - maybe you were just their dupe, not their agent.
Did you notice the CAIR booth at the march? CAIR is a well known terrorist supporting organization - go read the speeches of its leaders when they aren’t talking to the major news networks.
Like Moron Watch, I also wandered, without a sign, through the crowd for quite a while before joining the counter-protesters. How do you think I got those pictures? Sitting at home and watching TV?
We did not leave before the march started. In fact, we were there after the marchers had left. I personally didn’t go with the marchers (what’s the point? We didn’t want to block the streets or get arrested, and it is hard to counter-demonstrate a moving march).
“Scared little faces?” I think you mistake humor for fear, but then humor seems to be relatively unknown to the left. We weren’t scared of you, we were laughing at you! We had a blast watching guys.
Oh, if you were in our faces, in the picture, *which one are you*? Ned Flanders?
Nobody claims that you can’t be a patriot and demonstrate. After all, WE were demonstrating! But a lot of people I *met and talked to* were full of hate, and their hate was for everything *traditionally* american… you know, like capitalism and the military.
One thing I must congratulate you for, though: snookering the press with your 2500 number. From my pictures (taken while wandering the crowd), I estimate 300 people.
Oh, and another thing. I agree that in the short term Osama bin Laden’s people will gain support. But they will find it a LOT harder to operate, as governments in the area who have been cooperating with them (Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia) start to contemplate their fates! You have to think strategically, not tactically. Iraq is a battle, not a war. The war is to prevent the Islamofascists from killing off the west.
By the way, the San Fransico group, whom I had a long IRC chat with yesterday, plans to block streets and go on strike if a war actually starts. Does your group have similar plans? We have a name for that behavior: treason and sabotage in time of war.
Finally, take a look at the name of this blog: Useful Fools. It’s a term that the butcher Lenin used for people like you.
HA, im glad i found this page. Provided some much needed humor. So let me get this straight, you claim the republicans or anti-anti-war protesters had thirty people there? Alright thats fine but if there was thirty of them in a spot that filled up around 2 percent of the park and the anti war protesters filled up the rest of the park, with some areas tighter and others looser how could the anti war protesters have 300?
In fact how come when i watch the video there is a steady stream of marchers that keeps flowing out of the park and down 1st ave for 30 minutes?
Or how come when organizing demonstrations in Patriots Square previously I had counted 300 people and at this demonstration the numbers dwarfed the crowd size of three hundred.
Do you seriously believe that there was “maybe 300″ people there. Shouldnt you give just a little integrity to your readers. Or maybe you are just a little embarrased about how many people were actually there?
Heh. There was a protest at ol’ Ball State last Saturday. I wanted to go counter-protest, but my family was coming up that day to see Bill Cosby perform in the evening, so I couldn’t make it. *sigh* I wish I’d been there. One of the great joys in my life is poking holes in weak arguments.
In answer to “me…” I got my estimate of 300 from a photo I took from behind the stage, which showed the whole crowd. It was pretty easy to estimate. Furthermore, the park was hardly full. There was basically a ring of people about 5 deep around the stage, and then various gaggles of people scattered around the rest of the park. It was hardly crowded!
I will say, though, that the 30 counter-demonstrators were not all there at once. I would guess 15-20 at the start, with some coming and others leaving, and with fewer later - when the march started. Also, not all counter-demonstrators were in the NW corner - as the picture of the guy with the “save the environment” poster shows, and the other picture of the “moron watch” guy (and his posting) shows..
But we’re glad you enjoyed the humor. It certainly was a fun time.
can you post this photo you have?
Well, as it turns out my memory lied (us old Vietnam-era guys call that a “senior moment”). I did the estimate when I stood behind the stage and counted the rows (I thought I had taken a photo then also). However, I do have a photo I hadn’t posted that shows the depth of the crowd.
This was taken from just behind the crowd surrounding the speaker. Note that the crowd was 3 deep where I was standing and 6 or seven deep off to the right. The average worked out to 300 when counted from the stage.
BTW, “me”, I’m a lot more happy with my estimate than you must be with yours ( 4000. ) Your photo shows 40-50 people.
I know you are an anarchist, but isn’t “me” a bit silly as a name… wouldn’t your real name be perhaps more interesting? Also, are you in any of my pictures? If so, who?
[No, I'm not an evil agent with a black helicopter. I'm just curious]
I guess your kind will never be happy unless it gets it’s quota of blown up civilians. You really don’t equate them to yourself, do you Ned Flanders. If Iraq just happened to be Ireland, I suppose you would continue to call for an invasion without regard to innocent civilian death. Go on superior White man. Oh yeah. Your life is worth so much more than an Iraqui’s.
When you have a minute read this, not that it makes a difference to you.
How Did Saddam Get Weapons
Of Mass Destruction?
We Sold Them To Him
By Neil Mackay and Felicity Arbuthnot
The Sunday Herald - UK
12-10-2
The United States and Britain sold Saddam Hussein the technology and materials Iraq needed to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction. Reports by the US Senate’s committee on banking, housing and urban affairs — which oversees American exports policy — reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Snr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia. Other bacteria sold included brucella melitensis, which damages major organs, and clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene. Classified US Defence Dep-artment documents also seen by the Sunday Herald show that Britain sold Iraq the drug pralidoxine, an antidote to nerve gas, in March 1992, after the end of the Gulf war. Pralidoxine can be reverse engineered to create nerve gas. The Senate committee’s rep orts on ‘US Chemical and Biological Warfare-Related Dual-Use Exports to Iraq’, undertaken in 1992 in the wake of the Gulf war, give the date and destination of all US exports. The reports show, for example, that on May 2, 1986, two batches of bacillus anthracis — the micro-organism that causes anthrax — were shipped to the Iraqi Ministry of Higher Education, along with two batches of the bacterium clostridium botulinum, the agent that causes deadly botulism poisoning. One batch each of salmonella and E coli were shipped to the Iraqi State Company for Drug Industries on August 31, 1987. Other shipments went from the US to the Iraq Atomic Energy Commission on July 11, 1988; the Department of Biology at the University of Basrah in November 1989; the Department of Microbiology at Baghdad University in June 1985; the Ministry of Health in April 1985 and Officers’ City, a military complex in Baghdad, in March and April 1986. The shipments to Iraq went on even after Saddam Hussein ordered the gassing of the Kurdish town of Halabja, in which at least 5000 men, women and children died. The atrocity, which shocked the world, took place in March 1988, but a month later the components and materials of weapons of mass destruction were continuing to arrive in Baghdad from the US. The Senate report also makes clear that: ‘The United States provided the government of Iraq with ‘dual use’ licensed materials which assisted in the development of Iraqi chemical, biological and missile-system programmes.’ This assistance, according to the report, included ‘chemical warfare-agent precursors, chem ical warfare-agent production facility plans and technical drawings, chemical warfare filling equipment, biological warfare-related materials, missile fabrication equipment and missile system guidance equipment’. Donald Riegle, then chairman of the committee, said: ‘UN inspectors had identified many United States manufactured items that had been exported from the United States to Iraq under licences issued by the Department of Commerce, and [established] that these items were used to further Iraq’s chemical and nuclear weapons development and its missile delivery system development programmes.’ Riegle added that, between January 1985 and August 1990, the ‘executive branch of our government approved 771 different export licences for sale of dual-use technology to Iraq. I think that is a devastating record’. It is thought the information contained in the Senate committee reports is likely to make up much of the ‘evidence of proof’ that Bush and Blair will reveal in the coming days to justify the US and Britain going to war with Iraq. It is unlikely, however, that the two leaders will admit it was the Western powers that armed Saddam with these weapons of mass destruction. However, Bush and Blair will also have to prove that Saddam still has chemical, biological and nuclear capabilities. This looks like a difficult case to clinch in view of the fact that Scott Ritter, the UN’s former chief weapons inspector in Iraq, says the United Nations des troyed most of Iraq’s wea pons of mass destruction and doubts that Saddam could have rebuilt his stocks by now. According to Ritter, between 90% and 95% of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction were des troyed by the UN. He believes the remainder were probably used or destroyed during ‘the ravages of the Gulf War’. Ritter has described himself as a ‘card-carrying Republican’ who voted for George W Bush. Nevertheless, he has called the president a ‘liar’ over his claims that Saddam Hussein is a threat to America. Ritter has also alleged that the manufacture of chemical and biological weapons emits certain gases, which would have been detected by satellite. ‘We have seen none of this,’ he insists. ‘If Iraq was producing weapons today, we would have definitive proof.’ He also dismisses claims that Iraq may have a nuclear weapons capacity or be on the verge of attaining one, saying that gamma-particle atomic radiation from the radioactive materials in the warheads would also have been detected by western surveillance. The UN’s former co-ordinator in Iraq and former UN under-secretary general, Count Hans von Sponeck, has also told the Sunday Herald that he believes the West is lying about Iraq’s weapons programme. Von Sponeck visited the Al-Dora and Faluja factories near Baghdad in 1999 after they were ‘comprehensively trashed’ on the orders of UN inspectors, on the grounds that they were suspected of being chemical weapons plants. He returned to the site late in July this year, with a German TV crew, and said both plants were still wrecked. ‘We filmed the evidence of the dishonesty of the claims that they were producing chemical and biological weapons,’ von Sponeck has told the Sunday Herald. ‘They are indeed in the same destroyed state which we witnessed in 1999. There was no trace of any resumed activity at all.’
“Scott Ritter, the UN’s former chief weapons inspector in Iraq”
You mean Scott Ritter, the child molester?
To you, that’s a credible source?!?
“If Iraq just happened to be Ireland”??
What a strange hypothetical situation to dream up (must’ve been in an “altered state” when you came up with that one). I, for one, would be just as anxious to liberate Ireland as Iraq if they were being oppressed by a murderous, maniacal madman such as Hussein.
“Quota of blown up civilians”…like the victims of 9/11?
“without regard to civilian death”….like Saddam Hussein’s regard for the innocent Iraqi civilians that he has murdered?
…or like the innocent American civilians that Al Quaeda has murdered?
give me a little while, ill look for a good shot of the march. Ill post it on here when i find it.
Heres a good one. Remember though that unless I can find some sort of an aerial shot, the numbers will be real tough to figure.
Apparently MovableType (my blog software) doesn’t allow images embedded in comments, so your’s didn’t show up. Fortunately, the link was mailed to me by the blog post thingie, so click here to see your picture.
It looks exactly like what we saw when surveying the crowd (except your picture is form the left side (appropriate) and my count was from the right (also appropriate). Look at those folks. Nowhere near a thousand. Three hundred was my estimate then and it stands.
Well, it looks like the indymedia link doesn’t work. I really wanted to see me’s pic.
I’ve always admired anonymous posters. The courage exhibited nearly reaches the depth of their logic.
btw The SF Cron has aerial photos of the festival, er, protest there showing only 65k - 70k attendees and numbers from the transit lines (trollies, ferries and BART) that back their numbers up. The promoters still insist that they had 200k.
hI dear Mr./Mrs.
I have 2 nice plan about MICROBIOLOGY.
May I have get some help fromyou?
Thanks
Nice job, keep up the excellent work. I work in the financial district of San Francisco, and for several months this year, the protests were alarming, distructive, violent and smelly. I too went out daily, and particularly enjoyed following around BlackBloc kooks (the kids with the masks). In these instances there tended to be groups of ten or so and they actually did do some damage, mainly broken windows of businesses, dragging newspaper machines into the street, and lighting small fires. I watched one asshat dump an entire 1 gallon can of paint on an old ladies car. My fun came from following them closely (I look like a cop) and taking their pictures, never missing a chance for eye contact. Being pimply-faced losers of about 16 as a rule, they freaked and dropped whatever they were doing. If the actual cops employed this technique, there would have been far less damage than the $500,000 reported by local businesses. Looking forward to new oportunities, and this time I have made arrangements in advance to turn over my photos to the police. BlackBloc’ers must be stopped. Let me know if I can be of assitance to your efforts.
O, my god… usefull fools? Ha! what do you know about being foolish? I’m the expert in foolishness. I learned it from all the Marxist stuff I read when I was little. I learned that Lenin was god, and Karl Marx could levitate while thinking about Marxism.
Online Tramadol is one of the most prescribed treatments for pain in the world. More than 55 million people have taken cheap Tramadol to relieve their back pain, shoulder pain, and other chronic conditions. By acting on parts of the brain that trigger pain, and by reducing the size of pain signals that travel throughout the body, Tramadol provides powerful pain relief in just minutes! Buy Tramadol Now or visit this site: http://www.top-tramadol.com