Vietnam Veterans Against Kerry
Fri January 23rd, 2004 10:31 MST[UPDATE: There have been so many comments that the page has gotten too large. I have moved a copy of this page with all comments through 3/02/04 to here.
[UPDATE: Since many commenters (including vets) seem to be attacking George Bush’s service, you are also slandering my dead comrades and many current service members. Check out the link and be ashamed.]
A Vietnam Veteran’s organization has sprung up to oppose John Kerry, because Kerry used his Vietnam credentials to the benefit of the enemy in that war, which is hard to reconcile with his constant bragging about his service today. If you don’t think Kerry helped the communists, go to the site of the VVAK, and also read the history of the conflict (on this blog), and read on here. Kerry helped our enemy, it’s that simple! His actions are those of one who cared for his comrades but not for his nation!
If you are a Veteran who supports Kerry, you might want to know who financed some of his anti-American activities after he returned to the US, activities which slandered American servicemen before the US Senate. Here is her picture:
If you are a Vietnam Vet, you know who this is. Jane Fonda sits at the controls of an anti-aircraft gun in Hanoi, between American bombing raids. For those who are not familiar with Fonda’s treasonous acts, read this.
This is the same Jane Fonda to whom today’s Vietnamese dictatorship remains grateful, fondly labeling her “Hanoi Jane”. From their news agency, January 2003:
The 30th anniversary of Ha Noi’s Dien Bien Phu of the Air seems an appropriate moment to remember that in the midst of violent US intervention, our country enjoyed the support of Jane Fonda and millions of Americans who never came here but who shared her sentiments.Her presence in North Viet Nam that grim winter, when the sky burnt red with explosions and anti-aircraft fire, was crucial in awakening the American peace movement.
Here is John Kerry with Jane Fonda. Contrary to claims that this was coincidental, Kerry was the lead speaker at the event where this picture was taken. Other speakers included Jane Fonda.
Here is the cover of the Kerry’s book which he tried to suppress (fairly successfully, they are very hard to find) after he decided to run for Congress, the congress which later betrayed South Vietnam, handing the communists a victory they were unable to achieve on the battlefield:
This is a disrespectful parody of the Marines raising the flag on Iwo Jima. The flag is upside down,
Here is a picture showing John Kerry sailing with the Kennedy clan, his source of what soldiers call “PI” - Political Influence. Don’t let anyone tell you that John Forbes Kerry comes from a modest background with no contacts.
.
And here is an excerpt from his Senate testimony. He claimed that our soldiers
raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.
He showed his lack of understanding of the war with this:
we watched while men charged up hills because a general said that hill has to be taken, and after losing one platoon or two platoons they marched away to leave the high for the reoccupation by the North Vietnamese because we watched pride allow the most unimportant of battles to be blown into extravaganzas, because we couldn’t lose, and we couldn’t retreat, and because it didn’t matter how many American bodies were lost to prove that point.
Of course, since the purpose of the battles was to kill the enemy, not occupy worthless hills, so naturally the US didn’t keep every hill it took!
But Jane Fonda’s hero also seemed to know all about the global geopolitical scene as a result of his time down in the trenches:
we cannot fight communism all over the world, and I think we should have learned that lesson by now….
I am a Vietnam Vet who feels that Kerry is probably more despicable than Hanoi Jane for what he has done. Now he is trying to use his combat sevice to become the president.
You people are bogus. Your sugar daddy, George W., used his family connections to get an Air National Guard posting, and then couldn’t even be bothered to show up for that detail. Whatever you think about John Kerry’s policies and prescriptions for what he would try to do as President, at least have the honesty to recognize that he SERVED when others took the easy way out.
The chickenhawk argument you make is bogus and offensive to many veterans, including myself. Your comments dishonor my squadron mates who gave their lives for their county, dishonor my childhood best friend who did the same thing, and dishonor me, who survived! You can take your self-righteous blather and put it where the sun don’t shine!
When you make assertions about “easy way out” you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. The easy way out was divinity school, not flying supersonic coffins! If you want to find someone who took the easy way out, check with Bill Clinton, who lied his way out of any military service.
FACTS:
1) The single most dangerous military occupation in the Vietnam War was combat aviation. Even the training was quite dangerous, which is why even trainees receive hazardous duty pay. Those aviators who saw combat in Vietnam had a far greater mortality than line infantrymen! George Bush trained to do that job, and he could have been sent there at any time, depending on circumstances. At the time he joined the unit, part of it was already deployed in Vietnam.
2) My best friend was killed in a training accident flying a New Mexico Air National Guard fighter, while Bush was doing his training. I am reminded of that tragedy every time one of you asshats takes the chickenhawk cheap shot. Furthermore, my friend’s national guard unit also was sent to Vietnam.
3) I am a Vietnam Veteran who had a combat aviation position (aircrew, P-3 Orion) which I volunteered for, although I never saw combat. I know, from personal experience that when you join the military (including the reserves, which I did, requiring in my case 2 years of active duty, just like a draftee), you give up your freedoms and put your fate in their hands. I ended up flying on a combat aircraft. A friend who joined up with me ended up working on the flight deck of a carrier in the Tonkin Gulf, another extremely hazardous occupation (he got double hazardous duty pay). And I know from sad personal experience of losing my best friend AND some of my squadron mates, that even military aviation training is very dangerous.
4)When I went off active duty, the second reserve unit I transferred into could never find my records. I was never paid. To this day (and I recently got my military records from the archives), there is no evidence that I ever served in that unit. They took my reserve ID card as evidence that I was in the service, and everything else they took on faith. In other words, it is normal for records to get lost. Furthermore, exhaustive research has shown that the chickenhawk argument is false as applied to George Bush. Also, there ARE records showing the equivalent of 21 months of active duty on Bush’s part. Check this out if you have the cojones.
5)John Kerry returned from Vietnam and joined up with Jane Fonda and other radicals to betray his comrades, testifying before the Senate to unsubstantiated allegations of every possible war atrocity. If you read his testimony, it makes the US serviceman sound like Saddam’s Secret Police. You can be damned sure that there are millions of veterans who remember, and millions more who will find out that John Kerry’s “investigation” painted them all as war criminals, and was paid for by Jane Fonda, a person many of us believe should have been executed for treason!
John Kerry served well in Vietnam. He took three very minor wounds (none of which incapacitated him for even a minute, but earned him his 3 purple hearts), which qualified him to end his tour of duty early, which he promptly did. His behavior after that erases whatever honor he showed in country. It shows someone who hunted down and killed an enemy who fired a rocket at him, but accused all American soldiers of being war criminals! It shows someone who cared for his immediate comrades in arms, but who didn’t honor his country.
I am a veteran of Korea, Vietnam, the Cuban Missile Crisis and several lesser known duties during twenty years in the Navy. John Kerry testified before Congress repeating lies and distortions which he did not bother to verify. I doubt he ever witnessed any of the actions he claims and if he did, he should have been Court-Martialed for not taking corrective action. His testimony was instrumental in the Congress cutting off all funding for Vietnam, thus dishonoring all who died in service to our country. At the same time, General Giap (Commander of N. Vietnam forces) has stated that they were ready to give up the fight. Between the
liberal U.S. Media, Hanoi Jane Fonda, and John Kerry we lost the propaganda war long before we lost the war. Kerry has not changed his ways. He voted for the War in Iraq, lied about the promises of President Bush II, then voted against funding the war.
John Kerry has no shame. None dare call it treason.
Jim Duck
As a Vietnam Vet, I for one would rather see Bill Clinton back in th Whitehouse than John Kerry. I too agree with those who consider Kerry a traitor. Unfortunatley, there are too many people in this country who believe Kerry when he refers to Viet Nam as “Nixon’s War” This statement alone by Kerry says that he is either clueless, or assumes that everyone else is clueless.
I served honorably from 1957 to 1961 (in those days you either joined or were drafted) I used my V.A. benifits to buy a house and that’s all that I used them for.. I flew secret missions to Bangkok to support the French in Vietnam (we couldn’t wear uniforms and had to use passports).. My youngest son served, as a marine, in the first Gulf war.. I will never support this un-elected President.. Young Americans are dying for Halliburton and Halliburton is ripping off the military..
I came back in ‘67 to the usual welcome. Anyone who came through Oakland and received Uncle Sam’s treatment was prepared for what we got outside the gate. But it wasn’t until this Kennedy-imitating jackass (Kerry) got his face on TV, that I began to feel ashamed. Not of us vets, but that this overated upper-class punk with the inflated combat resume was presented as the Real Deal. This vile poser is what some people now think about when they picture a Vietnam Vet.
As a Vietnam Era Vetran I would like to encourage all vets to look to any or all democratic contenders. I personally chose Dean, but you may choose who ever best will fill your expectations.
If you have kept up with the news, you will note the present administration holds only contempt for vets; howelse would you explain the Bush administration cutting off our benefits every chance he gets. If you don’t believe this, simply do a google search on veterans benefits and see how many times it comes up with a story in the news about Bush.
I would like to promote the idea that the democrats will treat us much better. The present administration is only concerned with who is in the military right this momement. They have no use for WW II, Korea, Vetnam and other vets of past engagements. In fact many of the vets groups are complaining that its not fair what they will be doing to future generation of vets who come home from Iraq.
One has to only sit in the ER room in San Francisco at Ft. Miley to hear all the vets complain about this present administation. So, I ask you please to find a democratic contender to support, be it Wes Clark, Dean, Edwards or John Kerry. Find the candidate that best represents your wishes. Lets together get this Vietnam Deserter out of the white house, and all his cronies. We deserve better having served our country as do those who are still in the military at this time. As a Vet, I have been proud to serve towards keeping the peace and life and liberty in this nation. Lets find a President who truly believes in the same thing. One who will not cut the throats of those who have served. We are not “Welfare brats” as some Republicans have used the term. Our nation deserves better.
Thanks,
STEVE
USS INDEPENDECE CV 62
1972-1973
US Naval Reserves to 78
It seems to me that country should come before goodies from the VA. And this president has shown that he is willing to defend our country against the worst threat it has faced since World War II.
Meanwhile the Democrat candidates, with the exception of Lieberman, have shown their contempt for our nation’s defense in many ways.
John Kerry was funded by Jane Fonda to slander our country during a time of war. I think that disqualifies him.
Wes Clark is a perfumed pentagon prince, who was fired for insubordination. He would get orders from the Pentagon, then check with the French and other European countries, and then pick whatever orders suited him from that bunch. If you want our national defense run by the French, vote for Wes Clark. Oh, and he has changed his stories more often than the Sunday comics! Clark also lets stand slanders by Michael Moore, another of the Hollywood commies.
Dean would turn out defense over to the UN. All of them would… well, actually it depends on which week you listen to them.
So if you want to vote out of selfish interest, go ahead. If you want to vote with the party that screwed us in Vietnam, elected the Carter appeasement machine (it keeps on working), and gave us draft dodger Bill Clinton and his incompetent staff, go ahead. Remember, it was the Democrats who destroyed the CIA’s humint capabilities, leading to 9-11. It was Clinton who cut our military so much that now we have to use reservists to keep our country safe.
If you care about your country and its future, vote for the party that has a long history of actually defending America.
We need to resolve this “VA cuts” stupidity right away. First, military service never meant a free ride forever. Second, there were NO cuts in pay for personnel in Iraq or Afghanistan. The Defense Department wanted to hold a pay INCREASE measure because it included combat pay for troops in neither of these hot areas. The pay INCREASE WENT THROUGH for personnel actually in combat.
Third, in the 1990’s Congress reduced eligibility requirements for VA medical care to include service personnel without military-related problems. In five years, VA enrollment went from 2.9 million to 6.8 MILLION patients. The VA decided to impose a means test for the vets with the highest income, which eventually excluded 164,000 patients. If Steve has a six-figure income when he becomes a civilian, then he shouldn’t be at the VA hospital either.
This is all nonsense, and it perpetuates the big lie that the Bush administration is cutting Vet benefits. Try looking at the facts and stop
carping about your entitlements.
Hey guys!!!!!! Re-elect the chickenhawk, little ‘ole deserters need love too!!!!
USASA Korea, 1957-1960
You “chickenhawk” commenters had better check out this.
The “chickenhawk” lie, applied to Bush, is slandering past and current soldiers who served their country, including my former best friend who died while piloting a fighter in the Air Guard while Bush was serving.
You are disgusting! Really disgusting!
Most veterans don’t slander their fellow servicemen, but there are always exceptions! Then again, we don’t have any proof that you guys are veterans. Heck, when John Kerry testified slandered all American servicemen before Congress after his “investigation” funded by Jane Fonda, the people he got his testimony from gave no evidence that they were veterans. And we know how many phony “vets” there are out there. And since the testimony painted American soldiers as worse than Nazi storm troopers, it’s pretty clear that a lot of them were making it up.
You had better watch out who you climb into bed with, because you might wake up with Jane Fonda’s cooties. For some of you guys, it’s already too late.
The so called Vets here who are damning John Kerry a True War Hero are just Blind patriotic sheeple who would support a Deserter like Bush before they would any Democratic Veteran…That is the sad truth about these people.
I don’t know if Jack is a war veteran. If not, then you haven’t a clue as to what can only be called a hierarchy of courage. The young guy who crawled a tunnel or walked point for twelve months in an infantry battalion would think that officers’ service on a heavily armed, armored gun boat was a vacation. Not every combat veteran is “equal”, if you get the point. And that young guy probably isn’t reminding everyone, every day, that he was baddest Wolfhound around in 1969.
And anyway, the fact remains that, whatever Kerry’s measure of courage 30-odd years ago, a man is a continuous creature. Kerry’s years of opportunism, lying, money-grubbing and arrogance also contribute to who he is. It IS possible to cancel what you WERE by what you ARE, and the constant reliance on who you were 35-years ago as a moral ticket to ride today is, well, ugly and cheap. Is this too convoluted a point?
VietNam Veteran: 1968-1970 III Corp, Many American soldiers return home totally disilluisioned by the reach and depth of the political follies of VietNam. I will forever be in debt to those who served,I still hold total disdain to those who cross the Canadian border to hide, to those who use political clout to negate their duties. Kerry, McCain and other notable political firgues of today irregardless of their stances on politics need not apologize to anybody at anytime or anyplace. Chicken “SQUATS” like Clinton, Cheney and those who fought so valiantly from the comfort of their living room and are so readily willing to spill American blood once again
for political “Oneupmanship” Each day the reason for being in Iraq is dissipating….Yea, yea we can listen to all of this rhetoric about “Imminent or Immediate” danger to the U.S.
We can listen to all of this “Mass Murdering” of Iraqui Citizens (Like we gave a s%8@!)Honestly how many American even knew what a “Burka” was until Afghanistan????? I have no problem Killing Usama or the Taliban…..But what the hell are we doing in Iraq???? We have recently learn that there are no WMD’s, No Biological Agents, No Nuclear weapons or the ability to make any, and as far as Terroists in Iraq, it appears they only showed up after the Americans and British arrived.
Now if GWB would say “Let’s fight these guy over here instead of main St. America”: Okay!….But skip all of this saving the indigeous population of Iraq for the sake of humanity…sometimes telling the truth isn’t the easiest thing to do, but you got to do less explaining when you do it
and you’ll might be suprise how many more people can understand what you’re doing
E. Bone 18th MP BD..95th BN…557thMPCO Vung Tau to Long Binh and point south and west
Ed, would you vote for Kerry after he dishonored you and the people you fought with? Have you read what he told the Senate? Doesn’t it bother you that he was closely associated with, and funded by Hanoi Jane, aiding her projects?
Would you vote for him just because he did a good job in Vietnam, regardless of what happened afterwords?
Kerry has no need to apologize for his service. He has every reason to apologize for betraying his country afterwards.
As far as Iraq goes… The “facts” you specify are wrong. Did you listen to David Kay’s testimony like I did? He said that based on his research, Iraq was *more* dangerous than we had thought before the war, even though he didn’t have large stocks of WMDs? We are in a different world now, one where we have to be ahead of the game. He said that the combination of many scientists who knew how to make WMD’s, the corruption and lack of control in Iraq since 1998, and the frequent passage of terrorists through Iraq meant that the danger of these scientists helping the terrorists (for money) was great. And remember, one of the main reasons for the war wasn’t to destroy big stockpiles of weapons, but to stop terrorists from getting WMD’s, which of course they could only use in small quantities. Seed stock for the botulin toxin was found in one home refrigerator where a scientists was told to keep it. Who knows what other things exist in other homes, kept by people afraid to talk because the Saddamists are still killing them. Given the laboratories in the Iraqi Secret Police facilities, that botulism could have been converted into enough toxin to kill everyone on earth in a week or two.
Our attack was also to send a message to other countries that had this capability that they too could be invaded. In the last few weeks we have seen Libya suddenly open up its WMD programs to inspection, and now Pakistan has locked up its nuclear scientists who were selling their expertise abroad.
Furthermore, Kay found strong evidence that Saddam intended to resume his WMD programs. Nobody denies that he was trying to build up his missile program with long range missiles. And those are of no use at all without WMD warheads.
Finally, the fact that we didn’t find much in the way of actual WMD’s does not mean that we knew that ahead of time. The entire world thought that he had them, including Kerry. His actions were consistent with having them. His own generals thought he had them. He himself appears to have believed that he had them.
In this new world where a single terrorist can kill millions with a hand carried vial of biological pathogen, or a few terrorists can nuke a city or kill thousands with nerve gas, it would have been the height of irresponsibility not to depose Saddam, the ruler most likely to provide those weapons to terrorists. Iraq had the expertise, was thought to have the material and di have some, and Saddam was notorious for miscalculating the consequences of his actions. Furthermore, it was clear that the sanctions were not going to last much longer, and at the end of those, he would have revived his programs and been able to buy what he didn’t have.
20-20 hindsight is no substitute for an argument!
Oh, a few more points…
Yes, some members of the administration do believe we should overthrow the worst dictators for the purpose of installing democracy. I disagree with that - defending the nation is there job. Second, there were terrorists in Iraq, including Al Qaeda, before our invasion. Ansar Al Islam was an Al Qaeda group in NE Iraq that was working on a biological weapon (ricin). Furthermore, David Kay determined that the Saddam government was working on producing ricin right up until the invasion. Coincidence?
Furthermore, neither Bush nor his spokespeople called Iraq and Imminent or Immediate danger. That is a lie that is being spread by those who want to make him look bad. If you actually listen to what was said, Bush stated that in the modern world, one cannot wait until the danger is imminent, and he is right.
As far as abilities to make weapons, Saddam did not have the abilities to make nuclear weapons. Of course, we now know, from our inspections in Libya, that there was is a black market selling nuclear weapons production tools (Khadaffi bought his centrifuges from Malaysia!), so it wouldn’t have taken him long. And of course, we would never have found out about this if we hadn’t scared the turban off of Khadaffi.
So please look at the strategic picture. We are at war. It is a global war. Iraq was only one theater, and Afghanistan another.
On 9-11, Americans were notified that there was a movement that would stop at nothing to kill innocent Americans. We suffered the worst attack in our history. Just killing a bunch of Taliban and Al Qaeda isn’t enough to prevent even worse in the future. Look at the big picture, please, not just little bitty pieces.
A Navy guy that served in the same outfit as Kerry told me that he would vote for Saddam before he would vote for Kerry.
I can understand James A. Rassmann being indebted to Kerry for saving his life but
thanking him tearfully on national television was a bit much. Apparently he is not aware of Kerry’s actions after he returned from Vietnam. What is a “blog”?
Hey Jack! Where you been the last little while? 4 years ago Dick Cheyne resigned from Haliburton and sold his stock ( made a tidy little profit too)so he could run for V.P.. You and you liberal buddies keep bringing it up every time the company gets mentioned, as though he still had anything to do with them. There’s a website Conflict Securities Advisory Group that lists over 400 companies (many in the U.S.)that are profiting from the conflicts in Iraq & Afghanistan. Jump on some of those.
The VVAK link is not working here or anywhere.Dem sabotage?
JOHN KERRY IF ELECTED PRESDIENT WILL STRIP THE MILITARY, SELL US OUT TO THE UNITED NATIONS AND BIN LADDIN.HE CORRECT ABOUT HIS EXSPERENCE. HE KNOWS HOW LOOSE A WAR.
The link is ok now.
It seems to be clear who Kerry is, but there is very little strong evidence about his Vietnam Service.
It would be great if somebody who knew him then, will come up and give an honest and true account of the man who had the audacity to throw mud on all the people he’d left behind in the battlefields.
Here are some names of people who served with Kerry, maybe somebody knows them and can get them to stand up and testify:
Del Sandusky, Gene Thorson, Thomas Belodeau, David Alston, Mike Medeiros, Fred Short.
To Gad Levin: Go to WWW.Frontpagemag.com and read both parts of “Cash and Kerry”. These articles may not be objective, but they offer a lot on Kerry’s time in VN.
I was in the 533 pbr Gamewardens of vietnam. I was a gun tub gunner on a 31 ft. patrol boat. Kerry was on a swift boat a 1/2 mile down river from us.I knew Tom his stearn gunner. He told me his j.g was a premadona sent there to get medales. He thought kenndy’s riged the whole thing. Our job was to drop off navy seals and to exsrtact then before thay were killed. I only got one purple hart and the other hundred scars we got nothing. no one got three purple harts in three months. No one got the silver star for killing vietcong that attacted your boat. I was on that dam river as a river rat for 18 months. and killed over 60 in two different fire fights.This whole kerry hero crap is just that crap. The man doesn’t even have a scar.He got three nicks and thay gave three purple harts so he could sent home and become a Admrials aid So there you got someone that was there.
Hi, Folks… I am a Vietnam Vet and live near the Green Bay, WI. area. There is a forum on one of our local papers that is overrun with what I call ‘ELF’s’ (Extreme Liberal Fanatics!)
I need a little help… If you would like to visit the forum, its at the Taking Issue Forum on the Green Bay News Chronicle..
Here’s a link:
http://forums.greenbaynewschron.com/list.php?f=2
Bush in 04!
I’M A TWO TOUR VN VET, “67 & 69″ SGT.USMC. WOUNDED AND DECORATED WITH SEVERAL METALS W/V DEVICE. I HAVE NEVER BEEN ONE TO WEAR IT ON MY SLEEVE LIKE KERRY. THE FACT THAT HE PROTESSTED THE WAR ON HIS RETURN IS ENOUGH TO VOTE FOR ANYBODY BUT KERRY, (ABK). WE CAN NOT AFFORD TO PUT THE SECURITY OF THE USA IN HIS HANDS. I WILL DO EVERYTHING TO SEE THAT “W” IS RETURNED FOR ANOTHER 4.
I would not support Kerry or Bush and to those who think the VA is a free Ride “FU” I am 100% disabled and the VA has a motto; Delay Deny wait till you DIE for any vet with a disability.
My problem with Bush is his lack of support for the troops at all levels and a no-show for veterans….Kerry is a traitor and coward…yeah maybe not in battle but if he as an officer…..I was one also….and he witnessed even one incident he claims took place in Viet Nam then he should be held accountable for not taking corrective action and in all his years in the Senate he has done nothing for Veterans. I live in Massachusetts and he does not answer letters from vets ever for any reason I have written him many times and written for other vets …..nothing …nada……he is a phoney who even claimed to be Irish once to get elected….tells you a lot about a guy who then BOTOXes his face….
I was with the Marines in Vietnam from 9/67-7/68. In 7/68 I took a round through the guts (that exited the back at the beltline). I remember lying in the hospital (11 months) and I remember too when Kerry was yelling and making all those totally unfounded allegations. He is a disgrace to himself, his uniform, his service and his country. And as a veteran….he disgraced me and all my brothers, but especially the POWs who had to bear the brunt of his preaching how great communism was, year right!
That s.o.b. can eat shit and die!
I’m the guy who used the expression “free ride” in the context of the VA. My use of the term in my letter above applied to all the vets of all wars who think of the VA hospital as the first stop on the medical train whether or not they have a service-related problem.
This is the major problem with the whole system, because vets with serious disabilities have fewer resources because of overuse and exploitation. My problem with Kerry is the same I have with all vets who use their status as a way to gain an advantage and compete with guys who need it more.
You wouldn’t do that in the field. Why do it here?
I came back in ‘67, and in ‘78 developed liver dysfunctions and pancreatitis NOT due to drinking.
I was otherwise in great shape. My private doctor referred me to the VA because of the higher incidence of these problems among VN vets, maybe due to Agent Orange. It took a year for the problem to just resolve itself. The VA was an absolute mess, a bureaucratic nightmare, with guys everywhere in all condition being largely ignored.
Think of it as a preview of Kerry’s national health care lunacy, but that’s another matter. The VA is budget and a political interest first, and a health care provider second, or farther down than that.
Yes, Bush and Cheney haven’t helped, but it is the age-old “screw you” mentality of the Defense Department. Just remember how you were treated when DEROS came around. It’s no different now.
I’m a Vietnam vet too. I’m not going to discuss/denigrate his ‘war record’, mainly because I don’t know for a fact just how much of it all is really true, and how much is hype. Having been there, I already know most of those sort of exploits were dressed up BS anyway - wouldn’t be surprised at all if the allegation that he was just a setup orchestrated by the Kennedy clan was true, but if so, he HAD to be an embarassment to them when he came back.
That’s where I have real heartburn with John Kerry….whether he was a ‘war hero’ or not is irrelevant - he lost all right to respect for his Vietnam service when he came back and disrespected every one of us still there as a long-haired freak shill for Hanoi Jane (that b*&ch!). What’s worse, when he finally cleaned up his public act, what did he do? His best to cover up the POW situation. He was the NVN’s best friend all during those hearings, and still is a commie-lover at heart. Why isn’t there more talk about his family ties to the communist VN government? How about that fat real estate deal with his cousin’s company (think that’s the relation) and the present communist VN government? Talk about Halliburton & Cheney, that pales in comparison to this - at least Cheney’s divested himself of Halliburton interests….can’t say the same re John Kerry from his family’s business interests in VN.
This guy is a disgrace to the uniform he wore. I refuse to acknowledge him as a fellow Naval officer! He’s a traitorous, two-faced dirtbag, that’s my opinion. And it’s shared by far more vets and active duty folks than there are that like him. Thank everything for THAT!
Just remember, Benedict Arnold was also a war hero before he turned against his country.
The link for Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry: http://www.usvetdsp.com/jf_kerry.htm is off again.
“We few, we happy few, we band of brothers. For he today that sheds blood with me, shall be my brother.” I served with the 1st Marine Division, Seventh Regiment, Alpha Co., 1968/1969. I was wounded, losing my left leg above the knee.
Once again veterans of the Vietnam War, that is, those who truly knew what we were fighting for, and why, are taking it in the shorts. The idea of having a president in office who is willing to or has swapped spit with the enemies of our nation, sickens me.
It’s a shame there are brothers among us that are willing to sell their souls to put this Fonda like idiot in the Whitehouse. How can one such as this respond to the call. . .”To care for him who has borne the battle……”
I believe that Kerry, with all his flip flops and his nasty past with his stand on the war on teror. We will see, the very old Kerry do the very same as his stand on the Viet War. He was totally debassing . He did dip nothing to bring honor to the vets that served their country by hanging with Ramsy Clark and Jane Fonda. Clark? Wooo. he sucks also! http://inHiServicePray.com
Marie
PrettyProudUSA@aol.com
As a former Viet Nam vet,I consider Kerry to be a bigger threat to our national security than Clinton was and that is saying a lot. Now, everything he says seems to relate to his VN experience which is meaningless to me since he tried to bring such dishonor on those who served so honorably. Should he be able to constantly refer to his “medals” after he so proudly discarded in protest over the was? I think not.
I too am a Vietnam Veteran and while I salute John Kerry’s bravery and sacrifice in Vietnam, it is not his service in Nam that defines the man. It is what he did when he got home. Let me chronicle that for you:
1. Helped form Vietnam Veterans Against the War and disparaged his fellow vets in tetimony before Congress.
2. Allegedly threw his medals over the fence in the Washington protest reportedly stating he was ashamed of his service. This was to curry favor with the anti-Viet protestors. Reality is they were someone elses. He now touts his Nam service as representative of his “defending” this country and states he is now proud of that service.
3. In every campaign until his last Senatorial Campaign, either implied or outright stated he was Irish. He is no more Irish then Joe Libermen. When called on it he lied and stated he never said anything of the sort.
4. Has voted repeatedly against the following weapons systems and defense budget items: The B-1, the B-2, The Abrahms Tank, the Bradley Fighting Vehicle, Patriot Missle, 1991 Iraq War, Star Wars, etc. I can go on and on. Yet he states he is second to no one in supporting a strong defense.
5 TheWashington Post reported today (1-31-04) that despite his ralling against special interests, he has collected more spcial interest money in the past 15 years then any other US Senator during that time.
6. After looking like the picture of Dorian Gray on the campaign trail, he states he knows nothing of Botox, has never had an injection, nor has he ever heard of it. Yet his wife recieves Botox injections once every quarter and admitted it in an interview.
Senator John Kerry likes to think of himself as another JFK and touts that their initials are the same. Yet in being honest he is more like WJC. Do we really want another 8 years of dishonesty, vanity, and seld-centerisim from our President as we did during the Clinton years?
Keith Stanton
Former SSGT, USAF 1970-78
I am constantly amazed by the individuals who run their mouths on web sites and know not of what they speak. A case in point is those of you who constantly state that Bush is cutting the VA Budget for Veterans. Your source? John Kerry! Please let me share with you the facts.
1990 Census: 27,619,205 Veterans still alive.
2000 Census: 26,549,704 Veterans still alive.
A reduction of 1,069,501 live veterans
Veterans Administration Budget Under George Bush: (Source-US Office of Management & Budget)
2000: 47,087,000
2001: 45,050,000* *Budget submitted by W Clinton
2002: 50,880,000
2003: 56,946,000
2004: 61,889,000
Therefore will John Kerry please quit lying on the campaign trail about President Bush cutting the VA budget. Thank you.
Keith Stanton
USAF & Vietnam Veteran
I commanded EOD (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) detachments in both Vietnam and Korea during that time frame and I remember Kerry well. I remember when he testified before congress. It appears to me his medals were planed. Guys don’t beg to get out of the country because they got three little scratches. My men did things every day that would exceed what Kerry did. It was our job.
Also I commanded EOD detachments in the States and was at the 1971 “Peace” march that Kerry helped organize. I spent three nights on the DC bridges looking for bombs because we knew they had over 600lbs of explosives in town and were going to try and blow on of the bridges in DC. We found a hoax bomb on Key Bridge. Also, don’t forget the US Capital building was bombed shortly after that. These are the people Kerry and Jane Fonda were. They never made public how many bombings were happening in the States during the Vietnam era by this crowd.
I hope all this comes out during this election and who the Vietnam Veterans Against the War really were and are now. They still exist and are active.
I am not a vet, my left eye is blind and I was 4-f. I served, if you can call it thatin the Peace Corps in India from 65-67. All through Asia we were heros for standing up for South Vietnam’s freedom. I was stunned that a so called veteran like John Kerry would say the kind of things taht real heros, our PWs,resisted torture to avoid saying. You men who served there will always be heros to those of us who know what you stood for in those very difficult times. No real vet should be fooled by Kerry. Please, get on network TV with your message. We paid dearly for Clinton, Kerry we cannot afford!
I’m a Vietnam vet that won’t forget how kerry used us as poitical pawns for his own political means. He’s more of a traitor than Jane Fonda–at least she stood up and admitted being on the other side. Kerry jumps from side to side–whichever is best at the moment.
Vietnam Veterans are INDEED against John Fonda Kerry!
I’m a Vietnam vet that won’t forget how kerry used us as poitical pawns for his own political means. He’s more of a traitor than Jane Fonda–at least she stood up and admitted being on the other side. Kerry jumps from side to side–whichever is best at the moment.
Vietnam Veterans are INDEED against John Fonda Kerry!
Damm guys, why does this guy get so much press saying he is a hero when in reality he’s a trator. Does this country think we are liying about Kerry? I thought we were starting to get respect after all these years. Now this trator is going to be running for the presdient of the united states. This scares the hell out of me. I am 57 years old , the demacratic party use to be a respected’ for the people, party. Now they would vote for Stalin or Hilter to beat g.w. Bush. Thats sick.
The reason is because the press is full of people who betrayed us in the Vietnam War, or who were taught by them.
To these America haters, Kerry is a hero not for killing commies in Vietnam, but for aiding them in Washington.
Your old Democrat party was taken over by the radical left during the Vietnam War, and was responsible for handing the hard won country of South Vietnam to the North by prohibiting our Commander-in-Chief from defending them in any way. This same party prohibited a later CIC from fighting communism right under our noses in Nicaraugua. They are so biased that they thought the Communists would win the first election in Nicaragua, and members of the press were seen crying in Managua as the poll results came in showing their defeat.
I cover the loss of Vietnam here.
Look, GW Bush was a drug user during ‘Nam, who used his family connections to skate through the War as a privileged member of the Alabama Air National Guard. John Kerry was a combat veteran who served and then spoke out against the actions of politicians like GWB, Sr., who supported our sending non-privileged kids to fight a war that had little public support.
If the next Presidential contest is between GW Bush and John Kerry, only one of them will be in charge after the next election. Would you rather have a lying ignoramus who is so convinced in his own lies that he would start Armageddon and stage a carier landing to look like its hero, or someone thoughtful enough to have served under fire, have had some degree of remourse that his actions were perhaps not what he signed up for, and then spoken his mind with a conscience?
My best friend was killed doing exactly what you call “skating through the War,” so pardon me if I get really angry with your characterization. Oh, and your ignorance is showing. Bush did hundreds of hours of flying in the Texas Air National Guard.
John Kerry, funded by Jane Fonda, lied under oath to the US Senate using fabricated evidence that made every American in Vietnam out to be a monster worse than Nazi storm troopers. He then published a book that mocked with those allegations, with a cover that mocked the Marines who died at Iwo Jima.
When he decided to run for office, the book suddenly became very hard to find (it is going for over $800 on ebay right now).
Furthermore, John Kerry was awarded 3 purple hearts in 3 months for scratches, while other people doing the same thing got nothing. He promptly used those purple hearts to get reassigned out of Vietnam. He got a silver star for killing a lone, wounded VC, which would not normally earn any commendation. He has personally confessed to war crimes, but has never been tried for them. He had what we called “PI” - political influence - though his association with the Kennedy clan.
So my answer is: I’ll take a guy who has already proven that he understands the war on terror, and who put his young life at risk flying a dangerous aircraft, rather than Jane Fonda’s boy toy who disgraced his uniform, sided with our enemy, whose positions follow the wind and who is currently lying about the war on terror.
Veterans!
Since when does opposing a war dishonor the participants?? Can we honor the dead and the surviving, and yet admit that this war was not in the national interest?
And what is more dishonorable? Opposing a war in which you have participated? or sending people get killed in a useless war so you can show up in a flight suit on an aircraft carrier?
Useful Fool
It’s been well documented that GW Bush skated through much of his ’service’ in the National Guard.
I think HE is the one who dishonored the folks who did their duty, like your best friend
ChickenHawk… you are using up my patience.
Were you ever in a guard or reserve unit? Do you have any idea how they operate? I was, and I do. Just out of curiosity, what have YOU done to serve your country?
As far as dishonoring folks, Kerry didn’t just protest the war. He lied about it, under oath, characterizing his fellow vets as war criminals. He participated in a campaign payed for by Jane Fonda.
Now why don’t you go out to the local VFW and mention that you like Jane Fonda’s boy toy, a man who called his fellow vets war criminals, and then when he ran for office, hid the book he published on the subject. If you do, you won’t clutter up my comments again until you get out of the hospital!
Lets get this straight,,, the “chickenhawk” is NOT my President!!!!! He was appointed by the Supreme Court over the wishes of the voters!!!!
The Co-president Dick Cheney (also appointed), took 5 deferments to keep from going to Viet Nam. When they asked him about it he said that he had better things to do.
How can you support these puckballs???????? I thought you stated you were a vet!!!!!!!
Let’s get THIS straight. George Bush won the election by the method specified in the Constitution. Furthermore, even had the Supreme Court not intervened, many different organizations (most anti-Bush) did their own recounts and determined he was the winner. And you seem to forget the efforts of the Democratic party to prevent the votes of Florida military personnel from being counted, and the media calling the state for Gore even before the polls were closed, which discouraged an unknown number of Bush voters in the most pro-Bush part of the state (where the polls closed later).
So you can drop the BS about the Bush not being legitimate. Or perhaps you just don’t like our constitution, which says that the President is selected by the electoral college. Is that it?
Oh, and if Bush wasn’t elected, how about Clinton? Bush got a greater percentage of the vote, by about 6 points, than Clinton got in either 1992 or 1996. Obviously HE didn’t represent the will of the people nearly as well as Bush.
And, of course, Clinton didn’t serve at all, instead demonstrating against his country overseas, something you can accuse Cheney of. I wonder if you attacked Clinton with the same bile you are using on Bush and his team?
Now I doubt you will change your mind. Experience has taught me that people believe what they want to believe, not the actual facts.
As far as Cheney, so what? You know, a lot of honorable people didn’t serve. Few of my friends served. I don’t hold service in the military as the sole judge of a person.
And if you look around, you will find lots and lots and lots of people on the left who dodged the draft AND actively demonstrated against their country, and participated in vicious slanders against those who served and their country. When I got off active duty, I went to some of those demonstrations. I listened to those asshats chanting “Ho Ho Ho Chi Minh, NLF Is Going To Win.” The leftists stayed in college, got advanced degrees, and have used the positions just gained to pollute our culture and mislead our youth.
I think a person’s record counts, which is one reason I am so much against Kerry. But I also know that being a veteran isn’t MY criteria for a president, and it isn’t that of the Democratic party.
How can I support these guys? Because I know what the options are. I know that Kerry lied under oath while accusing American soldiers of being war criminals. I know that Kerry changes his position with every shift in the wind of public opinion, which is a sign of a person with weak convictions and weak character - an opportunist.
I know that George Bush reacted the right way to 9-11, unlike Bill Clinton, who could have prevented it if he had paid attention to the import of the 1993 attack against the WTC and the 1995 Bojinka plot, and not further crippled the CIA by restricting their ability to recruit human assets, with the clear purpose of preventing potential embarrassment to our most embarrassing president. I know that Bush appointed a group of smart, experienced people, and I remember the toads that served Clinton and represent the quality of the Democrat “talent” pool.
Yes, I’m a vet. But I also have a brain of my own, and I go to lots of news sources, not just the anti-Bush mainstream media. And I pay attention to what is really going on, rather than falling for cheap slander!
Mr. Moore,
I admire your knowledge and your patience dealing with the ignorant left, they just don’t get it, they don’t realize that we are at war and don’t see how important it is to elect a leader with a steady hand who will fight to win and destroy the terrorists and not a lawyer that will enforce the law, or rather defer the issue to the UN. I read that the known patriot, Terry McAuleef is planning to attack Bush’s service record, what audacity from a servant of Bill Clinton.
It is essential that Kerry’s record in the war and especially after it, will be made public, including Newspaper Articles, Audio and Video Recordings etc. Anybody who owns his book “The New Soldier” including its famous cover should make it available for (legal) duplication so people can see who he was, and most likely who he still is.
Useful Fool writes: “I also have a brain of my own”
Good! Use it instead of your patience.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A7372-2004Feb2?language=printer
“A review of Bush’s military records shows that Bush enjoyed preferential treatment”
“Bush was accepted for pilot training after having scored only 25 percent on the pilot’s aptitude test, the lowest acceptable grade.”
“In August 1972, Bush was suspended from flying because he failed to complete an annual medical exam.” Was it alcohol or pot?
“Although he was required to attend periodic drills in Alabama, there is no official record in his file that he did. ”
“Bush had been instructed to report to William Turnipseed, an officer in the Montgomery unit. “Had he reported in, I would have had some recall and I do not,” Turnipseed, a retired brigadier general, told the Globe in 2000″
“His officers at Ellington Air Force Base wrote in May 1973 that Bush could not be given his annual evaluation, because he “has not been observed” in Houston between April 1972 and the following May”
I suggest that the Chickenhawk-in-Chief should release the full record, in the same way that he releases his tax records. If there is nothing embarassing in there, why does he not?
At least Kerry was there, and fought for his country.
Unlike the drunken frat boy, George W. Bush, who spent his days working on a political campaign in Alabama instead of serving his country in the air national guard as he promised.
Kerry risked his life in a senseless war, and became embittered about it.
He also had the courage of his convictions. Unlike the coward we have in the White House presently, who’s cavalier with other people’s lives, and taunts the enemy to kill our soldiers and marines with dumbass John Wayne rhetoric.
I hope like hell you right wing hypocrites go after Kerry on this stuff. It will be fun watching that yellow-stained coward, George W. Bush, get his ass handed to him by a man who actually put his life on the line for his country, and tried to save the lives of his fellow soldiers by stopping a senseless war.
It’s easy to act tough when you aren’t the one who’s ass is in harms way, and when you have the entire secret service protecting you from even seeing protesters.
Bring it on!
HESOID You have no clue what you are talking about.
MR. MOORE If you need any ammo about these characters were doing during the 60’s please feel free to contact me. I have plenty of ammo for you about them and their little bastard new generation. You have my E-mail address.
CHICKENHAWK You say the war was not in the national interest. I was certainly in the national interest of the North Vietnamese and the Russians to win. Apparently you were willing to help them.
I was also in the national interest of South Vietnam which doesn’t exist anymore. It was in the national interest of Cambodia to win also. The side that you supported killed 2,000,000 of them. Are you glad you helped them.
Before you make some wise ass remark about what I just said, go practice saying it in front of some of the Cambodians and Vietnamese that went through the war who are living here now. See how long you last.
To Wotten York,
Very interesting, tell us more.
The level of debate on this blog is enlightening.
No room for an honest disagreement; nor for facts; and not for a little intellectual honesty
Wooten York mentions the Vietnamese and the Cambodian. I don’t know you, so I won’t presume what you do know about Vietanmese or Cambodians. Did you learn of their opinions to the Vietnam War from the deck of a carrier or the inside of a fire perimeter in Vietnam? Was it anecdotal, or a scientific survey? Note this is a question, an honest one (I don’t know you after all). The first step to a dialogue, as opposed to two people ranting at one another.
Don’t assume, WY, what side I support. You know what they say about people who assume. If you want to know you could ask. If I respond, I might add some reasons and context, and then you would have a fact to discuss, as opposed to repeating your %^*$£ stump speech.
Chickenhawk, please. Your letter to Mr. York reveals you as a pathetic dimwit pretending he’s an objective debater, even a thinker. When all you pinwheels on the left apply the same standards to Clinton that you apply to Bush, then maybe you can enter the debate about national war policy. Your craven acceptance of President Onion Dip and his hideous wife, and now Kerry, (who was out of service for two days with his three purple hearts) is another reason why people like you shouldn’t be given any power. It’s bad enough that you have the right to vote…as long as it doesn’t require a stylus and punch card.
I served as an officer in the Air Force between 1965 and 1985. I’m glad Kerry put in a few years.
His post service conduct was disgraceful and an insult to me and my friends who continued on active duty. He was instrumental in aiding and abetting the enemy to serve crass political objectives. He should be ashamed of himself and is certainly unfit to serve in any elected or appointed office in the United States. His actions were a betrayal of the Vietnamese and Cambodian people and resulted in the mass murder of millions. It took us unnecessary years and billions of dollars to bring down the Soviet Union because of people like him.
kerry must be exposed for what he did on the senate select committee investigation on pow/mia’s. he and john mccain effectively put an end to most hope of ALIVE POW’s coming home. every person, every witness, all testimony, that suggested we left live pow’s behind was debunked, diminished, and squelched. KERRY BETRAYED ALL POW’s. look it up! ’till they all come home.
I don’t think that President Bush has anything to be ashamed of regarding his service record, although it’s not something to be very proud about either.
The big question to ask is what is the real issue before us and why we are talking about an era that ended decades ago? The answer is Kerry – with nothing to show after a long fruitless political career, with a very liberal voting record, and some major flip-flops on critical issues, all he is about is exploiting his (strange to say the least) military career. Typical to Kerry, he served in Vietnam participating in no accomplishment of any kind, no major combat, no long struggling and endurance, just the minimum required for getting medals (undoubtedly through connections).
As I said earlier, this is the wrong question; the big question is who will lead us in the next critical years to victory in the war on extremist fundamentalists Islamists, and in which direction? Why doesn’t Kerry answer this question? Perhaps he knows that the American people don’t want to rely on the UN when it comes to our own security?
Perhaps he knows that his record on security in intelligence is very negative – wanting just to cut and dismantle? Perhaps he knows that his record doesn’t speak well for him on what he stood for when he joined Hanoi Jane and the VC propaganda machine?
Dear Gad: Your letter says it all. In fact, I wish I had said it rather than insulting the opposition. This struggle is for the survival of Western Civilization, which postmoderns and deconstructionists of The Left fail to see, or care about. Bush is irrelevant. I don’t particularly like him either, but a flawed commander is okay if the operation is a good one.
Kerry’s great flaw is his arrogance about his service, and urge to use it to cancel or diminish those who oppose him. Humility is the one thing that overtakes a war veteran sooner or later, as it did John McCain, who said it didn’t take talent to get shot down. McCain also confessed, sort of, and if you have any understanding of your own weaknesses fears and capabilities in war, you find a corresponding possibility in yourself. You are changed by that, and you don’t go around posturing about your service. You know who you are. Kerry isn’t there yet.
You’d think that people as sensitive to insults as y’all are would be more restrained in their use.
Watching the media get “Kerryed” away with JK tooting his war hero horn, I’m reminded of the dipwads at the bars in all the EM and “O” clubs bragging how they won the wars single-handledly. I am also quite aware of all those like my six brothers who really won the wars, came home with or without wounds, put away their medals, kept their experiences to themselves, raised families and supported their fellow vets whereever possible. So here is this Kennedy clone seeking support from veterans he spit on in the April 1971 Congressional hearing when he made it sound like the only reason we were in Vietnam was to rape, torture, poison, dismember and murder on a daily basis the “oriental human beings” with the “full knowledge of officers at all levels of command.” He never witnessed any of those atrocities first-hand but took the word of “highly decorated” fellow VVAW. Well here is a news flash for Mr. Kerry: the ten commandments aren’t the first directives referred to in any conflict and atrocities occur and have occurred in all wars but are not the rule by which our military abides. Mr. Kerry needs to remember even now that war changes us all, whether we get wounded or not, whether we “left blood on the battlefield” or not, whether we collect medals or not, that most of the heroes came home without nothing more than the thanks of the buddies they served with. And for all those who continue to attack GW for his lack of war service, first of all, get your stories straight and recognize the fact that many young men of privilege didn’t get to the war zone, let alone choose to wear the uniform with honor. Don’t forget that Al Gore used his father’s influence and spent his ‘Nam tour dodging spitwads and bad jokes at the EM club. John Kerry is an expert with smoke and mirrors and will continue to influence with distortions, lies and innuendo those who want to be influenced. Here’s one old vet who isn’t impressed with Kerry’s media war hero blitz; in my mind, he is still the founder of the VVAW and socialist politician bent on pushing this country into the New World Order. We must not allow him to hold the title of Commander In Chief over our military.
Well, its good to see that at least the hate Bushers here have given up on the “National Guard Service is skating” charge, which is a standard meme in their crowd (and which they probably use anywhere but here), and which sparked this posting.
Rather than continuing on here, let me just give you a few references. Read: this, this, here and here. All of these are by veterans who did their own looks at the evidence.
One charge I want to address directly: the charge that Bush didn’t show up in Alabama. There are two items of “evidence” - the base commander not remembering, and the lack of paperwork.
First, I guarantee that the base commander at my last duty station doesn’t remember me, and I don’t remember him. A base commander has more to do than visit with low ranked people. He has a whole base full of folks. Furthermore, as I have said before, the records don’t show that I attended any of my required drills at that duty station. I ordered up the records just last year, and that unit just isn’t there. That’s not surprising since I never got paid, either.
Every veteran knows the how often records were lost or screwed up. They also know that there was a major fire in the St. Louis military records repository that destroyed millions of records.
Finally, when Bush quit flying, he had completed more active duty time than he contracted for.
On the other side, we have Kerry making false testimony under oath (written by a speechwriter) that slandered every American who served in Vietnam. He also wrote a book, the cover of which mocked the Marines raising the flag on Mt. Suribachi and again full of lies about our serviceman. The North Vietnamese were unable to defeat the United States in combat, and were unable to defeat the South as long as the US provided air support (as demonstrated in His efforts were part of the campaign to give Vietnam to the communists, and they succeeded in one of the most shameful efforts in US history. 58,000 Americans died there to prevent the sperad of communism, and Kerry was influential in the successful effort to throw away their heroism by handing the prize to the enemy.
Given a choice, I would take draft dodger Bill Clinton over the man who gave aid and comfort to our enemy by attacking the honor of our fighting men, and I’d sure as hell take fighter pilot George Bush! Remember, Benedict Arnold was a war hero too, before he switched sides and joined our British enemy.
Bro In Arms..
Thanks for your fine posting and your family’s service!
BTW, John Kerry used PI (he had Kennedy connections). Furthermore, after only 3 months in Vietnam, he requested transfer out to become an Admiral’s aide in New York, and maneuvered an early honorable discharge so he could run for congress.
Benedict Arnold Kerry made the following statements while his Americans were still fighting in Vietnam.
He had personally heard U.S. soldiers tell how they had
and
and television
Kerry’s morbid fixation on the ugliest features of the VN war, true or not, was just the fashion, and Kerry is nothing if not a Fashionista, even today.
I think it was Mark Halperin, journalist, writer and, in the 60’s, Ivy League anti-war actitivist who told the story of his own comuppance on the the anti-war issue. After college he joined the merchant marine. One morning on a freighter he was standing by the rail with a Cockney seaman.
A troop ship was passing by in the other direction. Halperin said that he launched into his standard anti-war argument with the young Englishman. The Englishman looked stunned, pointed to the troop ship and said, “Yeah, but those are your mates!!”
Halperin said that, at that moment, all his specious arguments fell apart; he felt ashamed and realized that in some things, in war as well, your mates count for a lot, and only a son-of-bitch lets them down. Kerry did just that.
We had to go toe to toe with the enemy in VN. David Brinckley called VN the last battle of WWII, which it was. The French, as usual, fucked up, tried to reinstate their colony there, ran away, politicized the country, and we went in to show that, in the Cold War, we had what it took to stand up, even in that crummy little country, against Communism. I know the word “communism” makes lefties run for the crucifix, but it existed, it’s a fact, it was part of our world. Today its only fans are in large universities and among the free-range demented Left, like Noam Chomski.
Anyway, who cares?
John,
You have a great collection of comments here from some interesting individuals!
Just so you know, Hesiod runs Counterspin.blogspot.com. He’s a piece of work, and he’s been sending all five of his readers out to comment on Kerry stories with this little gem:
I don’t have the patience to deal with these little conspiracy-theorists, so I generally just edit their rants in the most embarassing fashion possible. Seems you are a better man than me.
Keep up the good work!
Ryan
John Moore—Remember when Dean Martin’s son was killed skating for the Air Guard?
I will answer “chickenhawks” questions the best I can about me but it will take some time. We all know that in a war there are two sides, one side wins and one side looses. You do what you can for the side you want to win. You either get out there and fight in the actual combat or you do what you can to disrupt the will and ability of the other side. In a war where people die, you don’t discuss debating rules in some coffee house or in some college campus BS session. This is real life. Later on when your grandchildren ask what you did, you hope that you can be proud of yourself if you tell them the actual truth.
Mr. Moore—One other thing, years from now when your grandkids ask you what you did during this time in history, I want you to proudly tell them about this web-site you had. You are doing a great service to this country.
A friend of mine sent you page to me and I have not read all the comments at this time about the useful fools that seem to be a dime a dozen even in these times of inflation. I just want to make a few preliminary comments and. if you wish, you may contact me for more comment or information. There is too much to even touch on, much less do justice to. As far as I am concerned, Kerry is not fit to be Senator. The worst part is that he has no competition among his fellow contenders since it would be difficult to tell them apart in the dark.
WW II AACS, AIR FORCE, BIAK, N.E.I. 1943-1946. A man’s courage is not tested until he faces a situation calling for courage. I never faced that test which does not say that I would not have passed. I believe I would. It was the grace of God that shielded me from some of the horrors others faced.
I want to call your attention to the fact that we were deliberately rocked to sleep the weekend of December 7, 1941. Pearl Harbor was no more necessary than 9/11 and we had our traitors in a position of power in our beloved country. Further,. General McArthur was under strict orders not to put his airforce in the air at Manila after the Pearl Harbor strike, A six hour delay that could have changed the course of the war. A bit of history that has been deliberately neglected. General McArthur was finally court martialed by Harry Truman because he would have won the war in Korea.
Here, I have to back up a bit to cover Roosevelt and Stalin dividing up the world at Pottsdam. They had as much right as you would to come here and divide my property. oe me to divide your property. This is a very important point because it set the stage for the Korean War, which we were not supposed to win and would have lost in the first stages except for the faith and resourcefulness of
General Douglas McArthur.
First he had salvaged supplies from the island that the Unions wanted left behind least it flood a postwar market and take away their jobs — not our jobs. Second, McArthur had full confidence in the Japanese that they would cause no trouble, so he pull his troops out of Japan with salvaged equipment and stopped the North Koreans. It was when the Chinese jumped us at the Yalu that our government showed that it had no intention of winning the war.
Now for LBJ’s wars, yes wars –plural. both loosers. The war on poverty and the war in Vietnam. The Vietnam war was a continuation of the Korean war where the real agitator and instigator is never involved in the actual fighting. Much like cockfighting. Everyone gathers around while the roosters kill each other. I think this brings us far enough toward the present as far as history is concerned.
We fail to understand the strategy. That is a different story to be addressed at a different time. I will touch on the WMD strategy against Saddam,. a strategy the Democrats are trying to whip into a frenzy. I am just going to touch on it here but will not need much prompting to go into much more detail.
At the end of the first Gulf War. Russia was almost beside herself to keep us out of Baghdad but got virtually no press coverage. I was watching and the Russia Ambassador maneuvered us into a position where, when Saddam accepted the condition — which he wasn’t supposed to do — there was little we could do about it at the time.
Now a question? Why no WMDs? Why no evidence? Could this have been deliberate strategy on the part of our adversary — not Saddam? I think this needs to be thoroughly investigated. It is consistent with the history outlined above. It is a potent club to beat up on George W. and it shifts the focus off the rabid traitors in our midst. If it is a conspiracy theory, so be it. I think the facts are there in public information which is my source of intelligence.
I also want to state that this in my opinion and that I have no strings to any organization, just an individual.
Richard
Chickenhawk–Ok I will do my best to enlighten you on why I feel the way I feel. But, I must confess, I was a Physical Education major in college and my ability to write is not the best in the world.
My father fought in WWII and was XO of the 15th Tank Bn, 6th Armored division. That unit fought through France and was one of the divisions diverted north during the Battle of the Bulge, they made the initial breakthrough into the German lines which the 4th Armored Division passed through and linked up with the 101st Airborne. They also liberated Bugenwald consentration camp.
I was born in 1944 and my family went to Germany in 1949. I can still remember touring some of these battlefields with my father and how the local civilians reacted when the saw the 6th AD patch on his right shoulder. Our money was no good and he was treated as a God or at least a returning hero to which many of these people he was. This made quite an impression on me.
I went to North Georgia College from 1962 to 1966. NGC was and still is a military college. We all knew when we graduated where we were headed. Almost my entire senior class went to Vietnam as did two or three classes before and behind me. We have our own memorial at the college and I knew almost all the ones that are listed on it. I don’t know how old you are but if you are my age, or your parents were my age, while people like you and John Kerry were burning their draft cards, crawling to Canada, or attending demonstrations against us trying to stop a communist take over of Southeast Asia, we were volunteering to be airborne ranger, helicopter pilots, etc.
I had bad eyes so I could not get in a combat branch and went into Ordnance. In Ordnance we have this little group called EOD. It stands for Explosive Ordnance Disposal. We were and still are the army bomb squad. We are the guys you see disarming bombs, clearing minefields, cleaning up blown up ammo dumps, etc. Those people you hear about in Iraq clearing the road side bombs, well they are the EOD folks. The current generation and quite a few of them are dying.
I went to the EOD school in 1966. We were taught how to disarm every known chemical, biological, nuclear, and conventional muntition that was known in the world. The school was much more difficult than anything I had in college and the drop out rate was about 40%.
From there I went to Picatinny Arsenal in New Jersey at the EOD center. We perfected new render safe procedures for the new munitions that were coming out and validated a lot of the old. Speaking of the old, if you take a civil war cannon ball and dry it out, it will still explode. Part of our mission was also helping the local police on IED’s or improvised explosive devices. We responded to several bomb threats in the civilian area while I was there.
In 1968 I went to Korea and commanded two different EOD detachments. One of these units worked up in the DMZ and we were always having problems with the North Koreans. I have some neat pictures I took one day when I was up at the Joint Security Area watching the buses carrying the Pueblo crewman back from captivity. I was clearing brand new North Korean grenades from a firefight that night. The infantry in the DMZ in Korea during 68/69 had almost as high of a casualty rate as their brothers did in Vietnam, but you didn’t read about it in the papers. We got out and worked in the country with the civilians. I didn’t loose anyone that year, but one of the CO’s before me was killed along with several other men after I left.
In 1970/1971 I was XO of a EOD Control detachment at Fort Meade, MD. We were responsible for all the EOD service in the North Eastern US. Those units were constantly responding to and removing bombs from our little peace loving friends from Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Black Panthers, SDS, SLF, Weathermen, etc. They all wanted the same as you apparently did, which was a communist victory in Southeast Asia. I guess you won that one and are proud of yourselves. John Kerry certainly seems happy about it. If you read up a few post I have already told you a few incidents. During this time I also ran the command post for EOD support to the United States Secret Service during the 25th and 26th anniversery of the UN. I was the senior guy there but was also on the response team and handled several incidents and bombs personally. Most of the people being hit were African consulates of countries who would not allow the communist to sent troops through their country to aid Angloa. Remember the Cubans sending troops in there to help out. One of the more interesting of many incidents happened this way. I was evaluating incident reports from my field units when I ran across where they had recovered a new type of grenade from a large city. A few more days later I got another report where another detachment had recovered the same type grenade from another city. About two weeks after that there was a third grenade, same type different place. I went back and checked the other reports and noted the LOT numbers were the same on all the grenades. I relayed this info to the ATF and a week later they called me back to tell me a case of grenades had been stolen and desiminated to several large cities. That is how organised these people were.
From there I went to Vietnam and commanded still another EOD detachment there. You asked I think, if I worked and gave orders from a base camp. No I didn’t, I was out there everyday with my men and I took the most dangerous and dirtiest jobs. I was taught by the college I went to and my father, you lead your troops, you don’t push them or walk behind them. I got out once again among the civilians,ARVN, and VNAF. I made quite a few friends and they were very glad we were there. I handled many exposive devices again to include removing explosive devices with timers on them before they went off. I pulled explosives out of body parts, cleaned up crashed aircraft, blown ammo dumps etc. We also supported the Special Forces training camp at Long Hai. This is where we trained the Cambodian Army. It broke your heart to see 12 year old kids in uniform carrying a Browning .30 cal machine gun with a butt stock on it. The weapon was so big compared to these poor kids that when they were at sling arms the butt stock drug the ground.
The last two months I was in Vietnam my unit stood down. I went to work for an organization called CMEC which was Combined Material Explortation Command. My specialty was of course muntions. I went all over country with a CIA guy looking at captured weapons. I would make sure they were safe and he would write down the factory markings, lot numbers, serial numbers, etc. These weapons came from all over the communist world. We pulled out and South Vietnam was left to stand on its own. We pulled out because of the problems people like you or your parents, John Kerry, and Jane Fonda were causing at home. You people are all the same.
Well that’s enough about me for a while even though I have got lots more.
Soooo “Chickenhawk” tell us a little bit about yourself and what you have done for your country and freedom in the civilised world.
PS: Someone asked if I was a thinker, well the EOD school was the only service school I ever went to that taught logic. I handled hundreds of dangerous unexploded munitions and have still got all ten fingers and both feet. Yep, I can think.
It’s interesting that in the primaries so far, Kerry got most of the veteran’s votes (in percentage).
The only explanations I can have for that is that in absolute numbers, the majority of veterans are Republicans, I cannot imagine many sane veterans from the sixties or seventies who would vote for him.
As a U.S. Marine who served in Vietnam for over 13 months in the Chu Lai area (May 1966- June 1967) I was trained to understand that our purpose was to accomplish our assigned mission not win medals. Medals are fine if deserved, but no medal can compensate for mission failure. When Kerry returned from Vietnam and protested the war there his actions prolonged the war by supporting the enemy on our home front thereby encouraging an enemy that was being beaten on the battlefield to fight on at the cost of many more lives, both American and Vietnamese. That this type of encouragement for the enemy was real has been documented as postwar comments of the North Vietnamese leaders. Kerry’s actions were worse than those of Hanoi Jane, because as a veteran his words bore more weight. And, as a Veteran he betrayed the men and women in the very units that were fighting to protect him when he was “in country”.
What Bush W. did to avoid combat does not excuse what Kerry did.
Earle Richmond, Irvine, CA former U.S. Marine and Vietnam veteran.
HESIOD: Sooo you are a front guy from MoveOn are you. You are not the same guy who just graduated from some little college in Maine that was preaching restraint after 9-11 are you. I can certainly see why you are right in there with Vietnam Veterans Against the War and such. I am sure Jane Fonda would be proud of you for carrying the torch.
Thanks Ryan. Reading Hesiod’s remarks makes it altogether clear that the opposition in matters like these is always the same. Greasy-faced misfits with dirty mouths and skinny arms who still live in the attic. He calls us “scumbags” and “cowards”, is going to take off the “rhetorical brass knuckles” with us. He refers to bowels and bowel movements, which simply confirms his Freudian fixations.
This isn’t a political ideology, its a pathology. It always is with the leftie square pegs. Their courage is always the crowd, their faces always vacant and seething with rage over their social, cosmetic and intellectual shortcomings. It’s good that they mingle with their own. Its a kind of Social Darwinism that keeps their political gene pool quarantined.
Seriously, you only hear this sort of vile and deranged nonsense from the Hesiods of the world. If this is a Kerry supporter, give me Bush, warts and all.
Way to go Mr. Moore! Now lets find that wonderful book of Liveshot Kerry’s and get it on Fox or MSNBC. It’s time for a national reveille and you vets have to be the buglers. I may have been only a Peace Corps volunteer, but I am not a useful idiiot. Ordinary people out there armed with the truth will bury that SOB. This morning when he crowed that another New England patriot had won I almost lost my breakfast. He is putting all his eggs in this big patriot lie and it is time we dropped this basket off the roof.
I would be honored to join any of you fine men in a demonstration that would call national attention to the lies this traitor is trying to pull off. We’ve all talked, now let’s show HESOID just how scared we are of him and his Clintonoid slime squad.
Bill Buckley on John Kerry, from his 1971 West Point commencement address:
http://www.nationalreview.com/flashback/wfb200402040837.asp
Kerry’s toast, if the Republicans have the wit and the courage to talk about this stuff.
John Kerry helped to contribute to the image of Vietnam Veterans as a rag-tag bunch of non-patriotic losers. He CONTRIBUTED to my problems of re-entering American society when I came back to the world. I was forced to hide the fact that I was a veteran for a long time, and I will never forget that. Kerry is as bad as Fonda, and it’s now pretty ironic he’s trying to hide behind the flag and portray himself as a hero, when he is a turncoat to us. Rick RVN 1968-69 11ACR
Hesiod… I had already been warned that you and your ilk would turn up here. No problem. It helps to have some Useful Fools demonstrating their idiocy here on the board.
Counterrevolutionary, thanks for the link! I just read it. I will probably use it in the future.
Rick, Welcome Home.
I sent this thing a few days ago. Just wondering if you’ve found out anything. Like to see if you have on anything of a response from his crew on any of the”against Kerry web sites” out there. I think the man is a hypocrite.
Ed Kostiha
What do the members of Kerry’s boat crews have to say about him, his actions, his leadership ability or their personal opinions of the man.
I’ve seen nothing in the media. Their answers may provide some insight, (good or bad, depending on your outlook). It seems ironic to me that President Kennedy’s surviving crewmembers stood with him during his campaign and no one from Kerry’s crew has come forward. Could you look into this and provide some answers?
I know, from personal experience, of one officer who recommended himself for a Silver Star for listening to a firefight on the Vam Co Dong river while he sat in the TOC at the USN base camp in Be Keo near Tay Ninh. I believe this was quashed, (at least I suggested as much). This idiot at first refused to dispatch waterborne assistance to the beleaguered boat. Units, (River Patrol and Riverine Strike Group) did respond on their own and against his orders.
R/Ed Kostiha
BMCM USN(ret)
Rivron 11, C-111-1
Rivron 15, Zippo 3
Naval Advisory Group VN
R/Ed
I have no real gripe with an honest Kerry supporter, and there might be some, however deluded. But after reading some of the comments on this site, it confirms what I have believed since about 1969.
Leftism isn’t a set of political views. It’s a set of snobberies, prejudices, and emotional instabilities. HESIOD, for example. Leftism is a form of compensation for personal rage and failures. Ideas of persecution are always there, a cult mentality is also, and vulgarity is the only device for emphasis for them. There’s also some really odd statist ideas peculiar to fascism.
The Gulags weren’t invented by the Right. Tyrannies of the Right are rare, tyrannies of the Left are everywhere.
These guys, like HESIOD are trying to insert themselves into the slipstream of the 60’s. Most of them have passed through the diploma mills in the Northeast and think that their opinions are the same as beliefs, that information is the same as knowledge and that being furious is being courageous. The cruelest delusion of all is that they think they are educated.
If our country EVER finds itself in the hands of these failures, the UGLIEST variety of tyranny will result. They aren’t crazy, they’re something worse, fanatics. This isn’t a Democrat or Republican thing. It is a piece of the war on Islamofascism abroad and Leftofascism at home.
You fight it where you find it.
GARY WEMYSS: Thank you for your kind words, but what you did for our country in the Peace Corps was e