Dissent is NOT the Greatest Form of Patriotism
Fri June 6th, 2008 19:15 MSTAlan Colmes tonight on Fox:
But of course, Dissent is the greatest form of patriotism.
Lefties love this quote. They misattribute it to Jefferson, thereby pretending he was one of them.
After all, a leftie sees himself (herself, itself?) as the little guy against this or that oppressor. The worst oppressor of all is the state - unless it is taxing or regulating according to the lefties rules in which case complaining as called “cold heartedness”.
It’s all so sixties-ish. Yuk.
…
How about a few higher forms of patriotism:
- A volunteer soldier who risks his life in combat for the nation
- A person who stands up for his country in the face of wrong-headed criticism
- Someone who provides employment for thousands of fellow citizens
- A person who lives a life of honor and civility
You horses ass. Today’s volunteer soldier is a person from the lower income brackets who has no other choice.
No, not today. Anyone who stands up against the current administration’s wrong-headed actions is pegged as unpatriotic
Yes, the military does employ thousands of fellow citizens, mostly poor disadvantaged Americans - then leaves them with little benefits, mamed with little assistance.
The actions of our government re Iraq looks nothing like honor and civility to me.
Always nice to start your comment with an insult. You must be on the left.
Perhaps you should study the issue rather than spouting somebody’s wrong talking points.
Today’s soldiers would be glad to tell you how wrong you aree. Compared to when I was in the service, they are better educated, dramatically better paid and have much better benefits. They take pride in their work and consider themselves, rightly, to be professionals. You demean them with your ignorant characterization.
The next time you mouth off on my blog, please drop the insults. I don’t expect you to ever show up with the facts, but the insults just make you look like a toad.
You complete tool. You have no idea how Jefferson meant that quote. What is more clear is how utterly dumb you are, and have no understanding about current policies or politics.
1) you agree with what the current admin is doing, which was to lead us into a war under false pretenses.
2) You agree with sending soldiers over there to die, even though the reason they are sent there is falsified. Put lets praise them for being brave. No. It is sad they are not fighting for something more worthy. They should only be called to arms for a real war. A real threat. Not rumors of WMD or other faults.
3) You sound like a GOP ignorant, worthless scab of a human being. And writing on this blog is like spending time having tea with a worthess brainless twit. You go to hell you dork.
By your words we shall know you - and it’s a pretty ugly thing.
The left shows their ignorance and their lack of humanity in posts like this.
Admin, why don’t you respond directly to what Johny Wadd and kd said about the war being fought for a lie??? Do you not understand that our military is overused by the neo-cons in Washington???? Why don’t YOU stop calling people “left” and then maybe people wouldn’t curse at you on YOUR blog!!! Look, if you say you are so informed, then just answer specific questions and allegations that others put on YOUR blog!!! But before you answer, tell me this DOES YOUR GOVERNMENT EVER LIE TO YOU???????????????????????????????????????
Waiting for a reply
Well… Why didn’t I respond directly? Because someone who fills his posts with insults is hardly worth responding to. Real discourse requires at least a modicum of civility.
So, since thetruth08 is not as obnoxious…
The war was not being fought for a lie. The lie is that the war was about large quantities of WMD - which is simply not true.
The war was about the threat that Saddam did pose, and the active support he was providing to terrorists. The war was about the obvious fact that, given a few years, he would have nukes again (did you miss the nuke program that he was doing with Libya? Or the many tons of Yellowcake that were removed, FROM IRAQ, last month). The war was because we needed to kick serious Middle East ass in order to show the terrorists we were serious.
The result of the war has been a major reduction in Al Qaeda capabilities (remember, just last year they - Al Qaeda - said that Iraq was the central front in their war with civilization). Al Qaeda’s brutality was exposed fully in Iraq, and led to disgust with them in much of the Muslim world. That hurt them very badly. Furthermore, we have been steadily killing the bastards in Iraq, Afghanistan and other places.
As for the military being overused… what do you think the purpose of the military is? Don’t you realize that morale in the military is very high - much higher than when I was in - and even then most of us felt we were doing a necessary job.
I will respond to one comment from commenter jerk-Wadd: if you could read, you would realize that Jefferson DIDN’T MAKE THAT STATEMENT. I do know that it takes ZERO courage in the US today to be a dissenter. ZERO. NADA. Today, anti-government rage is a fad among the mindless who let themselves be mislead on even the most basic of facts.
Courage is what we see in our military, not among those who diss our soldiers by attacking what they are doing - and what the soldiers themselves fully believe in. It doesn’t take any courage to call Bush names. It doesn’t take any courage to protest the war. It doesn’t take any courage to show up on my blog and hurl insults.
And as far as calling people “left” - it is my experience that those who hate Bush and rage on my blog are almost always on the left side of the political spectrum.
Oh, and if people want to curse at me… it isn’t gonna bother me. They show what idiots they are. I’ve been in this world a long time, am a Vietnam vet, was debating folks on the internet 20 years ago, and frankly am not too worried about little people who can’t do anything in my comments section except throw insults.
You may have noticed that I do allow the posts. I don’t have to - every posting to this blog must be moderated (because of link spammers, sigh). I may change that policy if my Captcha does the job.
“The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive.” - Straight out of his writings! Close enough to the paraphrased.
Well⦠Why didnât I respond directly? Because someone who fills his posts with insults is hardly worth responding to. Real discourse requires at least a modicum of civility.
So, since thetruth08 is not as obnoxiousâ¦
The war was not being fought for a lie. The lie is that the war was about large quantities of WMD - which is simply not true.
False George Bush used it as the Number one Reason.
The war was about the threat that Saddam did pose, and the active support he was providing to terrorists.
False.
Neither the state department nor the FBI had Osama Or Saddaam Listed as wanted…. It was a false paradigm. It was a forged letter that said Saddamm had bought Yellow Cake. Lookup downing street memo.
The war was about the obvious fact that, given a few years, he would have nukes again (did you miss the nuke program that he was doing with Libya? Or the many tons of Yellowcake that were removed, FROM IRAQ, last month). The war was because we needed to kick serious Middle East ass in order to show the terrorists we were serious.
False
Hans Blix had and has continued to state there was no immediate threat from Iraq as far as weapons. (You assume un der 15 years of U.N. Sanctions he had time and opportunity?
The result of the war has been a major reduction in Al Qaeda capabilities (remember, just last year they - Al Qaeda - said that Iraq was the central front in their war with civilization). Al Qaedaâs brutality was exposed fully in Iraq, and led to disgust with them in much of the Muslim world. That hurt them very badly. Furthermore, we have been steadily killing the bastards in Iraq, Afghanistan and other places.
False.
Compare this to war on drugs. We are losing footing right now in Afghanistan and Iraq; the talk of Iran is Psycho. Al Qaeda is a fictitious enemy. This war on terror replaces the war on drugs which replaced the Communist war. More Lies from the U.S.
As for the military being overused⦠what do you think the purpose of the military is? Donât you realize that morale in the military is very high - much higher than when I was in - and even then most of us felt we were doing a necessary job.
False
I am a Desert Storm Veteran our Ambassador at the time gave Saddamm explicit permission to Attack Kuwait for cross drilling into Iraq as Kuwait was out out of Oil. Therefore all the U.N allowed was parallel lines and restoring Kuwait.
I will respond to one comment from commenter jerk-Wadd: if you could read, you would realize that Jefferson DIDNâT MAKE THAT STATEMENT. I do know that it takes ZERO courage in the US today to be a dissenter. ZERO. NADA. Today, anti-government rage is a fad among the mindless who let themselves be mislead on even the most basic of facts.
False.
I am a proffesional making high 6 figure income. I am also a historian buff that reads alot. Ever since Egyptian times the world has always had the boogie man out there some where and living in fear to me is the most.
Courage is what we see in our military, not among those who diss our soldiers by attacking what they are doing - and what the soldiers themselves fully believe in. It doesnât take any courage to call Bush names. It doesnât take any courage to protest the war. It doesnât take any courage to show up on my blog and hurl insults.
Saying ones beliefs attacks the patriotism of soldiers is in and of itself a belief, one can disagree with the reasons for war yet still support the troops. As a soldier I remembered one thing Swearing upon the constitution not a President or a Country.
And as far as calling people âleftâ - it is my experience that those who hate Bush and rage on my blog are almost always on the left side of the political spectrum.
I am not a left or right. As that is another belief that we only have two options. We have more options, but narrow minded people fail to realise that. It is a trick tyo have you believe that options are black and white.
Oh, and if people want to curse at me⦠it isnât gonna bother me. They show what idiots they are. Iâve been in this world a long time, am a Vietnam vet, was debating folks on the internet 20 years ago, and frankly am not too worried about little people who canât do anything in my comments section except throw insults.
Well again you fail to make a single point with anythign but categorizing people as leftist. How boring. You should learn yourself to debate and avoid ridicule of others.
You may have noticed that I do allow the posts. I donât have to - every posting to this blog must be moderated (because of link spammers, sigh). I may change that policy if my Captcha does the job.
This is a threat. Just like the torture of people it makes you think as an American it could easily be you therefore through fear some follow like sheep. It is a mind control at it’s best striaght from the Nazi handbook.
augar - That is a real stretch. Yes, we know that Jefferson was in favor of resistance *on certain occasions*. That says nothing about “the highest form of patriotism.”
jbtay
George Bush and Colin Powell (is he a big liar too?) had good reasons to believe that Saddam Hussein had large quantities of WMDs. In fact, Hussein, during his interrogation, bragged that he had fooled the whole world into thinking he had the WMD’s. His rationale was he wanted to keep the Iranians scared. So we know that Hussein, who pretty well controlled information flow in his country, was deliberately running a disinformation campaign about his WMD capability. We also know that he had every intent of reviving a real capability once the UN sanctions were dropped.
Every intelligence agency in the world believed he had the capabilities. Check your history. Don’t buy the “Bush lied” crap. It would be pretty stupid to lie about something that could be easily checked. Notice that the Bush administration did not try to hide the fact that few WMDs were found, nor did it take propaganda advantage of the use of nerve gas against our troops in an IED or the use of large quantities of chlorine (a WW-I WMD) against Iraqi civilians a couple of years ago.
Do you really think that intelligence is some magic capability that lets us penetrate the secrets of totalitarian regimes? If so, you really need to look at the history of CIA failures over the last 50 years!
However, there were a number of reasons for the war. WMD’s were the most publicized, as they were the most dramatic, and Saddam had previously had large stockpiles of them, had used them against Iran and his own people, and was stonewalling inspection efforts in a very suspicious way. But more important, in the new war on terrorism, WMD’s are the most important strategic weapon of terrorists. Without them, terrorists cause tragedy and fear, but they don’t cause strategic damage. 9-11 changed the whole calculus of terrorism, and that was a critical factor in the decision to go to war with Iraq.
In that context, large quantities of WMD’s are not even interesting. A terrorist group is unlikely to need hundreds of tons of Sarin, because they won’t have the means to deploy it. But a few liters make a devastating terror weapon. A nuke, which can be made relatively small, is another, much worse terror threat. Also, according to David Kay - one of the inspectors - what he found out about the state of Iraq’s corruption after the invasioun made him feel that the WMD to terrorist threat was even greater than had been estimated before the war.
But back to the casus belli:
There are more (13 in total). Also, his past behavior made him a big risk.
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Regarding the yellowcake, you are confusing three separate incidents: the forged yellowcake letter that came out around the time of the Wilson controversy; the real inquiries about yellowcake that Saddam had made of Niger a couple of years before; and the actual removal of 550 metric tons of real yellowcake from Iraq that just completed last month.
Get it? They had the yellowcake. It was not a rumor. It had nothing to do with the Niger controversy, which itself is mischaracterized by you. Again, you need to check your facts before throwing out “false” all the time.
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Nukes. Yes, there was no IMMEDIATE threat from Iraq. There was no IMMEDIATE threat from Hitler in 1935, either. But Saddam’s intentions were clear. He had two previous nuclear weapons programs (plutonium, ended by the Israeli preemptive raid, and HEU - ended by inspections after the Gulf War. The reason he was unable to reconstitute them was the UN Sanctions program. But by 2003, he had subverted that program by bribing officials with oil offset money, and the programs were about to end.
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…Al Qaeda… you mention war on drugs. Irrellevant nonsense.
Al Qaeda/Taliban activity has stepped up somewhat in Afghanistan, largely due to the influx of Al Qaeda survivors fleeing from Iraq. But the idea of Al Qaeda as a fictitious enemy is such nonsense I can’t believe you are saying it. Tell that to the people killed on 9-11, why don’t you!
You imply that the WOT was concocted for nefarious purposes. I suppose you also believe Bushitler was behind the destruction of the WTC! What exactly are you saying?
The threat of terrorism - specifically Jihadist terrorism with WMDs is very real. The intent is there and frequently stated. Attempts were made by Al Qaeda to acquire several kinds of WMDs. Al Qaeda has gotten a fatwa authorizing them to kill millions of civilians in an attack.
And, of course, Al Qaeda isn’t the only group that is a threat - it is more like a clearing house for terror by both closely and very loosely affiliated groups.
If you don’t think terrorism something we should worry about, consider that just 2 years ago, Al Qaeda came close to succeeding in blowing up abou a dozen 747’s in the air over US cities - using liquid explosives (that had already been used by the Chechens to take down two Russian airliners in one day). An indigenous terror group, with ties to Egypt’s Islamic Brotherhood, tried to bring down the World Trade Center in 1993, which would have killed 50,000 - 100,000 Americans. Fortunately, their engineering skills were poor, and they had no idea that a few tons of ANFO was not enough to do the job. They did kill a few people and injure 1000 or so, though.
The important things that have happened with terrorism, that have made the old (crime) way of looking at it invalid are:
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Hey history buf, so you are a DS vet. Thanks for your service - seriously. Obviously that therefore gives you expertise on what the acting Ambassador said. What a non-sequitor. That’s like me proclaiming expertise on Henry Kissinger’s work because I am a Vietnam Vet.
If you read the transcript of what the acting Ambassador said, it was absolutely NOT clear permission to attack Kuwait. It was a statement that we didn’t want to get involved in an oil dispute. There is a BIG difference. Saddam misunderstood, and the acting ambassador (April Glasby) goofed by not making it more clear.
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Yes, in history there have been many false boogie men. But there have been even more real ones. Anyone who studies history should know the evil that exists and can be mobilized, and if you don’t see it in Islamofascist terrorism, you are blind.
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The soldiers today are not fond of those who attack their cause. Read their blogs. Ask them
When I was a soldier, things were even more complex than today. As for your swearing, the Constitution is the constitution of a country, obviously. Furthermore, as a serviceman, you were required to take lawful orders from the CIC (and all lower levels of command). You didn’t swear on the president, but you agreed to obey him.
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Categorizing people is a useful way of communication - you should know that if you read history. And most people who hate Bush are on the left, as I say. But since I don’t paint things black and white, I do use the word “most” and ‘in my experience” - duh.
I am not ridiculing people for being on the left. I am simply observing a trend. However, I am perfectly happy to ridicule those who insult me, and those who made silly arguments.
Huh? So now you are a mind reader? I don’t even know what you are talking about. “This is a threat” - What “this?”
My point is I am more afraid of the U.S. Government than I am Islamofascist terrorism.
Be a free thinker and allow others to think freely.
Colin Powell Resigned from Humiliation.
PNAC Project for a New American Century called for a pearl harbor event to push forward there ideas. Thus creating an enemy.
Only thing war brings is money to Defense Contractors and Bankers.
Sadamm was never a threat to anyone but Israel and Iran.
Now the same lies used against Iraq are being repeated against Iran.
Iraq would have taken over 10 years to create a nuke. The chemical weapons they had we gave them.
Russia and China are not going to sit by and watch the U.S. and Israel attack Iran without helping them covertly or overtly.
Best statement ever and what is going on now with people who believe or trust the Government or Bush is the following…
Benjamin Franklin; They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.
From your backing of Bush my friend I find you to be in this category of Deserving neither.
That’s pretty dumb, unless you’re a criminal. But I’m not surprised.
First, you have to know how to think!
Is that a slogan you found in a fortune cookie?
Another baseless assertion.
You know this how? Do you actually know anything about how to make nuclear weapons? About the issues involved? I do.
I call nonsense. You haven’t a clue. Please provide evidence of that.
True. Russia and China are already helping our enemies, because Russia and China are evil and dangerous.
Gee, you’re just full of great wisdom, aren’t you. But Ben Franklin supported a government which ran an army, the members of which gave up their essential liberties.
More to the point, just what liberties has scary, scary Bush taken away from you? You seem to have no trouble asserting your anti-Bush views. So I don’t take your fears to seriously.
From your mouthing of platitudes, I’d say you came to a blog that is named for people like you.
Hey, so do you enjoy the taste of Sean Hannity’s wee wee?? The only “threat” to america is america..